Speaker 2 (00:00)
Today we have Francesco Maffei from Frank Boards. I am looking to build a parawinging quiver. We were like, well, why don't we do what a custom console looks like for you. I'm 85 kilos. I write code foils. I'm looking for a three board quiver. I want to go out in anywhere from 14 knots to 30 knots.
Speaker 1 (00:19)
Maybe you like something small. It still sinks, but it gives me enough support. The board moves a little better. These boards are for fun, for ripping turns. got concave, on the depth, and then also there's curve. You always have something to push against. You're pretty locked in.
Speaker 2 (00:36)
Happy with that, happy with that. Midi, what are we doing with the mid-length?
Speaker 1 (00:40)
If you go that narrow, you gotta go...
Speaker 2 (00:42)
If
I want to go and hug a jump off a wave going out, yeah, I want to be able to do that. And then the last board, like I want to be able to paddle it up, but...
Speaker 1 (00:52)
If it's light wind but there's waves, you know, can go out with that and you just catch a million waves if you don't want to paddle. Actually, I'm going to make me one of these real swankers. Gaja is about to be really good.
Speaker 2 (01:06)
having all these boards with the same width, not that we planned for it, but I don't mind that at all.
Speaker 1 (01:11)
Jump
from one size to the next, it will feel very similar. And then plus colors and all kinds of stuff that you can change. Yeah, let's, β What you got in mind.
Speaker 2 (01:19)
stock colors.
Daniel Paronetto (01:34)
Welcome to the Lab Rat for the podcast. My name is Dan and today we have Francesco Maffei. Is that correct? Francesco? From Frank Boards. Frankie, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast, mate. Welcome.
Francesco Maffei (01:42)
Yep, correct.
Yeah, thank you. My pleasure to be here. Stoked to have a little chat.
Daniel Paronetto (01:55)
Yeah, we, β we're coming with this one, β with a different angle to give you guys a little bit of a perspective of what it feels like to have a custom board design consultation with Frankie. β so we'll touch on everything that he's been doing, β with regards to parawing related boards, the development of the mini dart, which everybody's raving about. β but before we get into all that stuff, Frankie, tell us a little bit about you, man. Like how.
Did you end up where you are now? And tell us a little bit about your experience with board sports as well.
Francesco Maffei (02:27)
Ha
Yeah, so I'll try to make the long story not so long, but so I started surfing when I was nine in Italy. β kind of started as a like a almost by accident. We were just playing with the, you know, the styrofoam boogie boards that all the kids play with and they were always breaking. So it got to the point where it was me and another two good friends of mine and
We were like, all these boards are breaking all the time. Let's go buy a good boogie board. And then our parents were like, let's see if we can find a surfboard. Because if we got to spend, you know, 100 bucks on a boogie board, maybe we can find some used surfboards. So we started surfing like that. Because I might as well buy a surfboard. β And it's cooler. Nothing, nothing against boogie boarding. But back then, that was the thing. β surfing and windsurfing the year later.
There was a big windsurfing club in my hometown and all the old guys are always helping us. And β so that's how I got into boar sports and windsurfing. Then it turned into kiting and then β foiling. I started kife foiling because that was like winging wasn't even a thing yet. And kife foiling was barely something because a lot of guys are like it was either. β
Daniel Paronetto (03:43)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (03:57)
I think the racing just switched from the big fat boards with the huge fence to the foil racing. So that was mostly the foiling. Like not many people were just foiling for fun. And so I started that and then I moved to, I started coming to Maui and then ended up moving here. And that's where I, when I saw winging like prone and winging and all that.
Daniel Paronetto (04:04)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (04:26)
and I was like, wait, that's like way more fun than kifoiling. Especially here, it's always 30 knots. You don't need to be kifoiling. In my eyes, that was more like a light wind β thing to do.
Daniel Paronetto (04:29)
Mm.
Yeah, you'd be on a two meter
kite in 30 knots, wouldn't you?
Francesco Maffei (04:42)
yeah, there's still, you know, there's a lot of guys that can still go, know, JD, follow cam, he's always out, but he has like some custom Nash, like tiny little kites. β but there's, you see a few guys out and, β still ripping around. β but yeah, for me. β
Daniel Paronetto (04:46)
Hmm. Yeah.
I still kite foil, I still love it, but it's a 15 knot thing for sure.
Francesco Maffei (05:06)
Yeah, I mean I had a blast with light wind. was having fun. All my friends were making fun of me. They're like, what are you doing the grandpa sport? I'm like, well, I'm going out. You guys are sitting on the beach. So I don't know. β But yeah, then when I got here, yeah, when I got here, you know, super windy. So that was the last thing it was going through my head. It was like, I'm going to go kifoil. so the winging was starting and
Daniel Paronetto (05:14)
Yeah.
Yeah, true.
Francesco Maffei (05:33)
started wing foiling, started the first downwinders wing foiling like we all did. And then there were guys already, know, sub foil downwinding, know, like Kai, like it was pretty much, I think guys that were able to do it back then, cause the gear was so hard. β So you knew it was happening, but it was not accessible.
Daniel Paronetto (05:46)
Hmm
Francesco Maffei (06:00)
It's like, yeah, not for me. Like, I'm not going to compare myself to a Kai Lenny or, you all those guys that did in the first, like, Dave Kalama and all those guys. β Then, you know, when Dave started doing the first barracudas, you know, obviously, here on Maui, we all got exposed to it β kind of earlier than most people. And then I was like, hang on there.
And then you started to see more people getting into it and like, hold on, maybe that's the way. So switch to that. And then I went into like a whole rabbit hole of that's all I did for like three years, pretty much. I stopped surfing. I stopped windsurfing. I stopped winging, stopped proning it. Everything, anything I did was just for that. Because you get a taste of what it could be, but
Daniel Paronetto (06:43)
Nice.
Hmm.
Francesco Maffei (06:56)
And then you're like, oh, I just want more. Like, know, the first time you fought for 30 seconds, you're out there for three hours. But that's all you need is this first 30 seconds and then your life is ruined. But yeah, then. Oh, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (07:01)
Yep, so true.
Yeah, that's it.
It's quite a journey, man. Downwinding. It's a lot of floating around
and those 50 meter, you know, little glides, you're like, my God, when this clicks, it'll be amazing. And you think it's right there, but it's still like four months away. It's crazy hard.
Francesco Maffei (07:25)
Yeah, and here we're lucky because you get to go pretty often and we have pretty amazing conditions, but it's still, even now, sometimes, you know, I have some people ask me like, should I, you know, maybe somebody did just wing foils. They're like, oh, I really want to start down weaning. Should I par a wing or should I sub foil? like...
Like, how much patience do you have and how much do you want to suffer? Because, know, sub foiling, yeah, yeah, time and how much you're willing to suffer and how much you're willing to, you know, stick with it through the suffering. And I tell them, you know, because look, if you're, if you're down for the, you know, the misery that you go through for the first few months, you know, get
Daniel Paronetto (07:56)
Yeah, and how much time as well?
Francesco Maffei (08:19)
the soft foil figured out first and then you can always parawing and do whatever. Like if you get that done first, you know, you'll always have it. And like now's the time because the gear is unreal. The boards are gray, foils are gray. Everything's easier than what it used to be. And otherwise I tell them, well, look, if you want it now, like tomorrow, just go grab a parawing and it's almost, you know, immediate. I mean, it's not immediate, but
Daniel Paronetto (08:24)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (08:48)
Yeah, definitely. It's it's a, you know, still learning curve, but you'll get to the fun part much quicker. So if you're if you just want the fun, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (09:00)
Yeah, absolutely. Especially coming from a,
coming from a winging background, couple of sessions for you to get over the awkward awkwardness of holding a kite with lines. That's not always, you know, tensioned like a wing. then you're going, cause you have the board balance, you have all that, you know, the skills to get up. It's really just understanding a new piece of kit. really.
Francesco Maffei (09:15)
Yeah.
Yeah
yeah, yeah. Most people that wing, they, you know, at least here, they all probably did some downwinders, you know, and probably all of them know how to ride, you know, flagging the wing. So you're used to that, β balancing on the board without anything helping you. And so for those people that transition to parawing, it's, it's really easy because like you said, they just got to figure out.
Daniel Paronetto (09:30)
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (09:46)
how to use the parawing and then once they're up and they realize that they can just put it away, it's just like, just yeah, you're like, wait, selling all my wings.
Daniel Paronetto (09:56)
Yeah, it's
Francesco Maffei (09:59)
Like in you know, year year and a half that parawing is being around they got so much better and you can go upwind so You know a lot of a lot of guys β Like here that maybe I mean I would do it too sometimes like if I don't have time for downwind I'll just
Daniel Paronetto (10:06)
yeah.
Francesco Maffei (10:17)
parawing will go up a little bit, do a mini down wing, go up again. It's getting to a point where you have pretty much the same freedom that you would have with the wing in a way that you can kind of go wherever you want. β Light wind, I feel like you need to have your gear a little more dialed in than winging.
Daniel Paronetto (10:21)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Francesco Maffei (10:48)
like winging it's a little more forgiving in that way at the extremes like low end and top hand you're you got a little more room where parawinging you have to be a little more dialed in but if if you're dialed in it's it's pretty much like you're winging it's but better because you can always put the the you know put the parawing away and now you're you're proning
Daniel Paronetto (11:12)
100 % man. β When was the first time that you actually saw it like on Maui? Did you look at it and you were like, shit yeah that's what I want for the rest of my life or you were like, what is that?
Francesco Maffei (11:25)
I think, I think, remember that first video, β that BRM put out. was like, β it was a video when they launched, I think it was their launch video or like a little snippet they did. And it was at Maliko and I think JD Follwacan was, β I think he, sailed up when, and then he was following him with the, with the camera that, that day we were, when they were, started shooting that we were
piling out for a downwind at Malika, it like in the evening. And, you know, we already saw the first one I saw was, you know, Sam with the Hawaii Five-O, with the two handles, what was he called? The pocket wing. Yeah. So that was the first I saw and I was like, oh, that's interesting. I was like, I kind of want to try it. And then,
Daniel Paronetto (12:11)
Pocket, pocket wing.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (12:24)
my friend was in bed, she's my neighbor actually, I saw her using it here and there, like you start downwinders and then she had her little black parachute that she would use for Kihei runs to get out when it's flat. And so I was like, oh yeah, I can see, like it's something I want to try but she told me, you know, it was the first generation and she was like, oh, you can't.
Daniel Paronetto (12:38)
Yeah, sick.
Francesco Maffei (12:51)
They would try to sail it at Kaha. And she was like, the thing will just rip your shoulders out of your sockets because there's so much pull downwind. And then β when I saw the BRM, was like, β that seems like interesting. Like I want to give it a go. And then I had a friend. But this was later. So this came out pretty much end of last summer. And I think it was like maybe
Daniel Paronetto (12:59)
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (13:21)
November or something I Had a friend β He lent me one and I made a board I was I'm gonna make me a I think it was a six six by 18 and a quarter like 77 liter board. I'm like, this is gonna be my my big problem for kaha for the winter and It'll be my board to try the parawing
Daniel Paronetto (13:38)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (13:51)
But I went out the worst day you could possibly pick as the first day because it was nuking us probably like 35-40 knots. And I went out on a bigger foil because I'm like, oh, at least I'll get up. That was a bad idea. And on a 2... No, wasn't a... It was a... A 2.9 I think? I don't know. The thing was just...
Daniel Paronetto (13:59)
Yeah, it's a lot.
that's big.
Francesco Maffei (14:19)
Yeah, the thing was I just got ripped down when like almost killed myself. I was like, know what you guys Use this thing. I'm gonna I'm gonna stick to my paddle for now or like if I want to go in the ways I grabbed my wing, but it was it wasn't the gear it was it was me, you know Making poor choices because then I was talking steve tobis was out winging And he came in and I was like I told him man, don't know you do this thing
Daniel Paronetto (14:36)
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (14:46)
He's like, what size are you on? I told him to nine. He's like, man, you're nuts. These guys are out on the one and they're getting dragged around. What are you thinking? I was like, I don't know. I'm just like, that's the one I could get my hands on. went out and tried it. So that was that was my first. First session, β which wasn't the greatest, but. I always had it in the back of my mind. I wasn't thinking about it as much for down with me because I really, you know,
Daniel Paronetto (14:53)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (15:16)
But at that point, my downwind was all dialed. I have no drama getting up or anything. So for me, it wasn't like, this will make my downwind a lot easier. But it was always in the back of my head. was like, this will be so sick for Ka'a because I can go out and then I can put it away and ride the way without the wing being in the way.
Daniel Paronetto (15:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (15:42)
So that was my, that was the first thing I thought about. Yeah. When I saw it, was like, this is, this is what it's going to be sick for. And, uh, well eventually now I got there. Now I can, I can do it, but took me a minute.
Daniel Paronetto (15:42)
Yeah, doing laps.
Hmm.
Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it is a little bit, I think as a kiter, you would have understood how to fly it a lot quicker than most people. see a lot of wingers, β having their first experience with it. And you're like, β wow. You really have, you don't have that intuition of just reacting. it's going this way. Okay. Cool. A little tension on the rear lines. Like those things, kiters get really quick. β and I think just the familiarity of the gear for a kite foiler.
Francesco Maffei (16:08)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (16:27)
It's awesome. It's a little, it's a little kite and you're with a prone board. Like it's so skaty. It's, it's so awesome. But I'm, I'm curious to like, think board designers like yourself, there's such a good temperature gauge of what's happening in the market because you get people calling you, I want this board. want that board for this, for that. How has the transition been now with the parawinging?
Francesco Maffei (16:30)
yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (16:51)
with people calling you wanting boards? Are people like, a lot of people wanting parawing boards? Or is it wing boards? Or is it downwind boards? What's the temperature gauge like?
Francesco Maffei (17:02)
Nah, it's definitely, β I mean all I have planned for this next two months pretty much is parowing boards. Like I have a couple subs here and there but β yeah, everybody's gone like I need This is what I want to do and I feel like what I notice at least for Maui and it might be like other people too like the you know
or Maui in the summer, it's super windy. So everybody was riding really small boards and mainly doing downwind runs. And, that's how, so I didn't really parawing much until after M2O was done. And then after we were done with M2O that night, we were to ahead and dinner together. Okay, from tomorrow we're all parawing you forget this bottle for a minute. And, and I started doing downwind runs because I'm like, well,
Daniel Paronetto (17:49)
Yeah
Francesco Maffei (17:55)
I need to figure out how to get up like efficiently. And if I do it, you know, I'm doing a downwind, I got to get down there anyways. So might as well. And I was comfortable, but you know, I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner or somebody that never did a downwind run. But if, if you're comfortable with the, you know, the run and you've done it a million times with the stop and you're comfortable in being stranded out there, like figuring stuff out, like for me, that was.
Daniel Paronetto (18:13)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (18:24)
what made more sense because I could just keep trying and keep going downwind and it's fine. Fine. so that's kind of what I did. Did a few runs, you know, got better and then did the transition to kaha once I was like, okay, I know I can get up, you know, in timely manner. I'm not going to drift downwind and have to walk up the beach. So at that point I went to kaha, but, β yeah, I think that was
Daniel Paronetto (18:27)
100%.
Francesco Maffei (18:54)
That was where I put a lot of time was like after M2O and then I saw that a lot of people switched over. Like you could see all the guys that were doing downwind runs on the SUP. Now they're all parawing after the races because everybody's like done. It's like we're done with this. A handful of people stayed like, yeah, a handful of people stayed like, you know, strong on the SUP and they were parawing like here and there. there was a bunch of us that just went like full on just like
Daniel Paronetto (19:10)
Yeah, they need a break.
Francesco Maffei (19:24)
for a month, like that's all we're doing.
so all these people that parawing in the summer, you know, you're doing downwinds and if you want to ride a smaller board, this is more fun, but it will take you longer to get up. So you're like, I can use a tiny board. parawing is fine.
Then you go to Kaha when the first swell starts to show up and you realize, oh, hang on, I need to get up like quicker. I can't be wasting time. So like, feel like a lot of people now after this summer, you know, they're reaching out and they're like, I want a little bigger board. I need to get up quicker. I want it to be more efficient. So that's kind of what I've seen, especially here on Maui,
Daniel Paronetto (20:05)
Interesting.
Francesco Maffei (20:06)
a bigger board wouldn't hurt for, for Ka'a because you're, you don't have endless time to get up. want to.
you have a, you know, almost like a limit. β So that's kind of what I've seen is people starting to realize like, this isn't winging that I can have one board for everything. You can, but you have to be, you know, in the, you probably, if you have one board that does it all, you probably be more on the low end of your range.
to make sure you have your low end covered and then the top end, you know, it's it's the obviously it's nicer to have a tiny board, but you can still use, you know, a slightly bigger board. You just go smaller foil and smaller wing. And that's what most important that you can make it work on the on the top end. But if it's too small a board, you can't make it work in the low end. You just don't it just doesn't work. So that's kind of what I've seen.
β this last couple months
Daniel Paronetto (21:15)
that's a very interesting point, especially for waves. You need to be in and out of the break pretty quick if you don't want to be getting sets in the head with a pair of wings.
Francesco Maffei (21:23)
so one because that's what I that's what I use I use like one to one β Volume wise and
Daniel Paronetto (21:27)
Hmm.
Francesco Maffei (21:32)
I find that and I don't I might try a smaller board but I go not that often and when I go in the water I don't have that much time so I will probably stick to the soil now I'm like riding a 90 liter board because I'm 90 kilos and I might make an 80 or maybe 85 but I'm fine with my 90 liter board because I know I'll get a
Daniel Paronetto (21:44)
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (22:02)
easy and you know in the winter the wind gets a little gustier I know I can stand on the board comfortably just waiting for the gust and I got to a point where I'm efficient enough at pumping the board and the parawing that if if I'm standing up on the board the gust comes I can point downwind a couple pumps and I'm up where if I'm sinking the gust comes I gotta get on my knees
By the time you get to your feet, the gust might be gone and now you're like sinking. can't stay there in that position. So
Daniel Paronetto (22:32)
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (22:35)
this could be so much easier if I can just get up, stand there in between gusts and just wait. And then I'm like quicker at β getting up on foil. So I think, β anywhere between one to one to like maybe like five to 10 liters below your weight. It's it's a, that's where I try to stay.
Daniel Paronetto (22:39)
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (22:58)
in the range when I talk to customers. And then if somebody tells me, I just want to go for a strong wind type, then like, okay, well then you can go maybe 15, 20 under. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (23:01)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
can go little smaller. Yeah.
Yeah. I think, β I think it was so cool to see, β just from a distance, the development of, β you know, the mini darts with Walt and these new parawing boards that you guys, β kind of just released really, it's pretty fresh. can you tell us a little bit about what, what these boards have that make it more of a parawinging board when you compare it to just a normal wing board for people to understand?
where the efficiencies are.
Francesco Maffei (23:42)
Yeah, I think so it still works really good as a a wing board but for parawinging what we've this was mainly from Walt's feedback because I was I was still busy getting all the race boards ready for the you know the sub boards for the races and I only tried parawing one so I was β you know relying on his feedback and
what he wanted was more volume on the nose because of you know compared to and this I felt like the first time I tried wingy I was like oh you power wingy I was like you can't really pump the parawing I guess you can but it's not like wingy like wingy you can really use the wing to get yourself out of the water or the parawing it's more like
Daniel Paronetto (24:26)
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (24:38)
If you need the parawing to get you out of the water, it's more like the parawing is just ripping you out of the water. can't pump it to generate that much more power. And I noticed that I was trying to use the board more. So when he told me that I was like, yeah, that's kind of what I saw already. And in winging, if you don't have a lot of volume on the nose, it's fine. Because most of the time you're leaning back and you have the wing pulling at 45 degrees up.
Daniel Paronetto (24:49)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (25:09)
So the wing is never driving you straight into the water or just horizontal to the water, which is what the parawing does more. And so he said, yeah, I just want the nose to be, you know, floating more than the tail. And I want it to give me more feedback when I pump. he's like, but I also want the board to be small. He's like, I don't want, because you can just make a, you know, like a six, seven.
Daniel Paronetto (25:16)
Mmm.
Yep.
Francesco Maffei (25:40)
and help fix the problem, you know, it's like, yeah, but to make a, he wanted a five, six by 18 and a half. I think at the end we ended up 18 and a quarter for his board that he, he wanted that, those dimensions and be able to pump on the board with the board, not just sinking and disappearing under the water. Like he wanted that board to give him support for when he was pushing on it to pump the board to get up.
Daniel Paronetto (25:40)
β Yeah.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's crucial.
Francesco Maffei (26:07)
and
which is different from winging is usually winging your your line more on the wing and just the board to accelerate and release. So yeah, that's kind of what we worked on is more volume on the nose, bigger, flatter bottom to get that rebound. Or at least when you when you pushing down, you have more area to displace the water. So because if you do
Daniel Paronetto (26:27)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (26:33)
the displacement hole that I do on the sops, works because the boards are 8 foot plus long. even if you're narrow, you still got the length that when you push on it, it's displacing the water. If I make a 16 inch wide 5'6 board, you push on it, it just sinks. Like there's no support anywhere. And that also worked out to have the extra width to help with the balance because the
Daniel Paronetto (26:41)
Mm-hmm.
yet.
Francesco Maffei (27:02)
The parawing is not helping you to stand on the board at all. If anything is trying to like get you off the board all the time. Yeah, compared to winging, know, winging the wing is such a help. You just have it there and steady. So I guess that was the main three things you wanted the board to be stable. He wanted support for when he was pumping on the board and the nose not to β pearl when he was doing all this.
Daniel Paronetto (27:10)
Yeah, throw you off.
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (27:33)
So that was the focus and it all, you we did a few versions and the last one, he was like, yeah, this is it. is, so you can make me, you can make me the real one now.
Daniel Paronetto (27:45)
Nice.
Yeah, it's, um, I think those things are really interesting because I can, when you're talking, I can actually see myself in the water sometimes trying to get up on my 65 liter board and the nose just driving down because you're trying to pump. then, you know, a little bit of a bump goes through on top of the board and it just sinks and then you just have to restart. Um, and that's really frustrating, but it's, it's exciting to see.
Francesco Maffei (28:06)
yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (28:13)
for the first time a para wing focused production board. β And that is available now. So the mini dart, you can, I'm just looking at the website here, the access website, have β volumes from 50 liters to a hundred liters increments. And then five, six, five, eight, five, 10, every two inches, increments as well from five, six to.
Francesco Maffei (28:31)
Incrementia.
Daniel Paronetto (28:38)
Six four. So these are awesome, awesome sizes. and look myself, I am looking to build a parawinging quiver. So this is also how we got started with our conversation. We were like, well, why don't we do a live consult of what a custom consult looks like for you. So we can understand, all right, if I am going to call Frankie and I want a custom board, this is what I'm, you know, this is the kind of.
Francesco Maffei (28:39)
64. Yeah. β
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (29:06)
Questions I'll be asked, what kind of information is crucial for you to have knotted out. So what we're gonna do is we'll go through your design consultation, of building a, really a three board quiver. So I'll give you my brief, like my little brief, and then we can get into the β specific board. So I'm 85 kilos, β and that's with wetsuit. And you know, I often go out with an extra parawing on me.
Francesco Maffei (29:09)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (29:35)
I'm probably like 80, 82 kilos, but I also like to bump that up a little bit. I ride with a wetsuit 90 % of the time. So I'm considering 85 kilos there. β My riding, I ride in a bay 70 % of the time and 30 % of the time in the ocean. And in both scenarios, I'm doing anywhere from 10 to 30 kilometer downwinders and
Francesco Maffei (29:41)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (30:00)
Here in the Bay, I'm more inclined just to do laps. I'll go out in a really high performing spot and just do laps on the parawing. And if I'm in the ocean, then mostly I'm not doing downwinders anymore. I just want to ride waves. If I'm in the ocean, just, I'll just try to optimize for waves. β I ride code foils. So I'm not sure if that makes any difference in, you know, box placements or anything like that, but.
Francesco Maffei (30:16)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (30:27)
cold foils is what I ride and I'm looking for a three board quiver. So I want to go out in anywhere from 14 knots to 30 knots. So pair winging is basically what I do 90 % of the time right now. If I'm not paring, I might chuck a kite up, but that's it. So I want to be able to maximize my time on the water. If it's knots to, you know, the days that are blasting here. So basically what we're looking at
Francesco Maffei (30:44)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (30:56)
are three types of boards in my opinion. I'm looking more at a SUP surf, a midi, and yeah, and a sinker. β What are your thoughts?
Francesco Maffei (30:59)
Yeah.
for the bigger one.
Yeah, so I think, β you know, you're so let's say the everyday board, it would be like what I use, like one to one. anywhere between like 80 and 85, β liters, that would be your, β you know, you, you take that to the beach and you probably going to use that most of the time. And then you have, β
make it like a 65 to anywhere between 65 and maybe 70 liters. If you only gonna use it for like strong wind, maybe like say a 65, like something small that, that's what I noticed. Like I used, when I use my, like I use a 60 liter board and it was, you know, nice when it was really strong, but
Daniel Paronetto (31:49)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (32:10)
For me, so 60 liters for me, it's 30 liters below my weight. And that felt like, yes, I can make it work, but I would have been so much more comfortable if I was on a 70. That makes sense? Because I'll be, it still sinks, but it gives me enough support that the board moves a little better. And I'm not, because when you're not moving and the wind is strong, the parawing, it just yanks you like so much. you're not, you're just stuck in the water.
Daniel Paronetto (32:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (32:39)
So I you I wrote the 16 is fine, but it will be Like a pushy Like everything has to line up perfect if that makes sense, you know, it's something that you would have to get used to it
Daniel Paronetto (32:47)
Mmm.
Yeah, look
Yeah, I kind of go with this idea that if I get, you know, an extra five minutes every time I'm popping up, just because I'm not waiting around for a gust, it's so much time on the water that you maximize. And I have a 65 liter board at the moment, which is a good board, but it's not a parawinging specific board. And I think the volume on that board is perfect for that. That's the one that I was in hood, you know, was there for.
Francesco Maffei (33:09)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (33:23)
You know, in, in, in July and I just took that board and that board was perfect. 65 liters. could ride it pretty much any day there. So I think in terms of volume, that's, um, spot on with the 85 65. subsurf like for.
Francesco Maffei (33:35)
Yeah, and what's
the dimensions you have on the 65? What are you riding
Daniel Paronetto (33:42)
Yeah. So I have, well, let's talk about the 65 then, because with the 65 I have here, look, that's when in, I started using the 65 and maybe 24 knots plus, you know, up to there, I can still be on the, on the midi. I'm normally on a three meter parawing or smaller. ride the A10X. So that's a mid aspect foil. So that's an 8.2 AR. So that's really mid aspect, really surfy.
Francesco Maffei (33:57)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (34:12)
β a 10 so it's still easy to pop up and β The dimensions I have for that in my head Which are a little bit different from from the what you have on the website is a 5 8 by 19 and a half or even 20 at 65 liters and the reason why I'm changing the width a little bit is because I want the board super thin
And I felt that that is something that's so helpful with the parawing. think the more sidewall you have, the more unstable it is in the water because if you're riding in 30 knots, there's freaking swell everywhere. So for it to allow to just take that one on the side and I'll buck you off. just want those walls as thin as possible. So for me, the question is with those dimensions, how thick would it be? Like would it be around four inches, a little bit over four inches? That's the...
Francesco Maffei (34:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, yeah, because the, pull it up. that's a good point, like.
Daniel Paronetto (35:08)
the thing that... β
And that's the thing that is really
interesting to play around with. Cause, just to know what the thickness, and this is the dimension that I can get on the access website, the actual thickness of the board, β just length and width and volume. And I was like, Ooh, we need to know how, how thick that puppy is.
Francesco Maffei (35:33)
Yeah,
because I I I am I don't look at Just for myself and I know there's I mean I had a lot of people asking me for the is like, oh, what's the thickness and I was like, oh yeah, I guess I kind of lost think stop thinking about thicknesses when I was Doing all the downwind subs because there's a lot of things are more important than that for for like a race board
Daniel Paronetto (35:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (36:01)
And then I started looking at it more β when doing the mid-links and had people asking, what's the thickness? I don't want it super thin. I'm like, well, these are already thin because of how I put the volume on the nose. then so the deck is already thinner. β But what I... β
What I and also that was part of the reason why I did that was to increase the stability because you don't want to β you know, the thinner board will be more stable on the water It'll feel more direct when you're on foil And also like you said, don't have the sidewall. So the water just kind of goes over it. So that's a good for for like a stronger wind board the extra width is nice because
Daniel Paronetto (36:43)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (36:58)
it gives you that stability, keeps the board thin and it's not really having a bad effect on your pop-up because if you're using that board it means it's windy so you're not trying to be efficient. It would be, say if you go 19 and a half, I would stay more on that because it's still nice to have
Daniel Paronetto (37:12)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (37:28)
a little bit narrower outline. just accelerates a little bit better. But also what is nice is to have a little bit of extra width when you're riding strong winds because you have more control over the foil because you're probably going to be going at higher speeds. So your wider board will give you more control over the foil. Like on the race boards, I
Daniel Paronetto (37:31)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (37:57)
I recently went back on a 16 inch wide board from a 17 that I was riding this summer. And I, you know, I used to ride 16. I went to 17. I'm back to 16 and I'm gonna have to get used to it again because it just rides, just get the whole experience is different. As you're up on foil, you only have 16 inches and now the foils are, you know, you just go straight, but even just going straight, you know, it's, it's, it's more finesse. So
Daniel Paronetto (38:19)
Yeah, you-
Francesco Maffei (38:28)
These boards are for fun, for ripping turns. You don't need that. You just want it narrow enough that's still efficient at getting up. 19, 20 is fine. I'm riding the 6'2", that's 6'2 by 20, 19 liters, and that's fine. I still get up easy in light wind. So it's not like 26, 27, or those crazy wide boards that we used to a couple years ago.
Daniel Paronetto (38:28)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (38:56)
So let's see if I do 5A. Let's call it 19 and a half.
Daniel Paronetto (39:03)
Yeah, my current one is 20 and I think you're right. Like 20 is probably on the higher end of the width. Like I, could be a little bit more narrow and like, I'm not going to lose a lot of the stability.
Francesco Maffei (39:05)
see what the
Yeah, I guess, because the main thing that I was doing for the stability is also the
the how the tail sinks a little more. It has the board and I was doing that with the shorter subs like the last year or so. Because we tried a 6.8 100 liter β downwind board. We end up using it more for the waves would be downwinded with it and we really wanted the tail to sink.
Daniel Paronetto (39:42)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (39:58)
So the board is set in that position. If the board β tends to stay flat, then whichever way you move, you're gonna tip it over in all directions. If the board is preset with the nose up, it's gonna be harder to get the nose down. So already you don't have to worry about that as much, because that's already harder. So you can...
Daniel Paronetto (40:02)
Mmm.
Interesting.
Francesco Maffei (40:24)
Count on okay, I can lean forward and the board is gonna support me instead of if the board is flat as soon as you lean forward it goes down and you lean back and it goes up it's like So that was What I try to do with these boards I have it preset so that tail sinks a little bit and that also helps with the parawing pulling you horizontal goes Noses up and as the wing starts pulling it tends to go flat and where if it's flat and the wing starts pulling goes under
Daniel Paronetto (40:31)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (40:55)
β so here five eight, 19 and a half, you're looking at around around four inches thick in the middle where if you go, and this is at 60. Yeah. And then if you go,
Daniel Paronetto (41:06)
Four flat, that's pretty good.
Francesco Maffei (41:12)
the 5a 18 and three quarters reduction one
It's about the same. It's just that we went...
is what happens. Yeah, it's because you got five liters more. So you went even though you went wider, you know, if it was 60 liters, then it would have been, you know, a lot there. So if I do the 60
Daniel Paronetto (41:23)
580 liters though, isn't it?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But I think
four inches is still incredible. mean, four inches for me, if you want to have, mean, if you're on a prone board, then you're looking at the three inch mark. But I think for a mid length, then I still consider a sinker like a, it's a semi sinker, right? 65 liter, it's not a four liter board or a 30 liter board. That's pretty good, four inches.
Francesco Maffei (41:57)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, because like I said, how the boards are designed, the where you're standing, it's set lower than than the nose. you have. Yes, if I do the production one, if I make it a 19 and a half, then in the middle, you're like at three and three quarters. With, you know, stretching it out almost an inch. But then.
Daniel Paronetto (42:11)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (42:28)
because we added the extra 5 liters, you got back to pretty much the same thickness as the production one with the 5 extra liters. β So we added the volume going sideways and kept the board pretty much the same, which it will give you very close feel to what the 60 liter is, but you have a little more stability, you got a little more support. And 5 liters on the smaller boards,
It makes a huge difference. Like if you try a 60 and a 65, it's, you know, if you're 90 to 95, it's a yacht, you know, it's the different, but it's, know, you're adding five liters to 90 liters. So it's, it's a smaller percentage where the smaller you go, the more, you know, just five liters make a big difference. So I think, yeah, that's,
Daniel Paronetto (42:59)
huge.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (43:24)
The 65 I think it'll be a call it sinker, but sinker that you still if the wind drops a little bit, you still able to, you know, make it work is not going to be a like a 40 litre board at the wind dies. You're done. You're swimming in.
Daniel Paronetto (43:35)
Mm-hmm.
You're done.
Yeah. No, and at four inches, it's already thinner than my 65 liters. So mine is just over four inches. So if it's on the bottom end of four, I think it's spot on. just, β it's just hard to see from like the, just the renders on, the website, like how thin, how thin is this thing? You know?
Francesco Maffei (43:57)
Yeah.
Yeah,
I know was gonna actually I was just gonna talk to Evan and agent this week and maybe we add in the measurements because we had a lot of people asking like sending emails like what's the thickness and then I answer back and I'm like yeah actually a lot of people that ride this kind of board they want to know how thick it is because of what we're saying like you want to know like is it like a six inch thick you know chunk of foam or is it
Daniel Paronetto (44:24)
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (44:32)
more lively, like, you know, more playful. And another reason why it was, it comes out pretty thin is how it's because of the wide flat bottom. moves the volume over to the rails and it gives you that thin profile and stability.
Daniel Paronetto (44:44)
Yeah.
What are the specs
of that custom behind you? Is that a β bigger volume board or a...
Francesco Maffei (45:01)
β
This is a bigger one. This going to a laventana soon. This was 6 foot by 19 and a half, 80 liters. It's hard to see but I can tell you how thick this is. The main thing is the flat section on the bottom is a lot wider than
Daniel Paronetto (45:12)
Nice.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I could see it.
Francesco Maffei (45:32)
like the prone board
I use or the wing board because then because of that that's why I'm able to keep the thickness like within something that's reasonable and then this whole section you can see it's kind of hard to see but it it's inset and then the nose goes up so where you're standing it's sitting lower than the front section and it makes it
Daniel Paronetto (45:57)
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (46:00)
kind of like, it's really hard to see but for an 80 liter board it's not that thick yeah it's got little it's got concave on the deck and then also there's curve um notice the tail so when you're standing on it you're you're pretty locked in you always have something to push against either way it's not it's not crazy um like like um
Daniel Paronetto (46:04)
Is that the concave like the concave on the deck?
Mm-hmm.
Nice.
Francesco Maffei (46:30)
Like Ken, Ken Atgate was here last week and he you know, he uses a lot of concave a really deep concave and and he was asking me he's like β He's like why do you why do you do? Why do you don't do as much concave? I'm like, well I think because I ride I forgot if he rides the straps or not, but
Daniel Paronetto (46:42)
Yeah, huge.
Francesco Maffei (47:00)
I like, as I come from downwind, downwinding for me is just flat deck, because you standing on it for 40 minutes, just flat. So even just a little concave, it feels pretty good and it's. And it's it gives you enough extra control without sacrificing comfort. So if you're if you want to downwind the board, it's still going to be comfortable enough. And if you want to ride in the waves, you have the extra.
Daniel Paronetto (47:06)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (47:29)
feel of connection with the board from the concave. also rides really aggressively. his question is like, well, how do you know? And he was telling that to Sinbad. He was like, well, how do know where your feet are? Because he knows where he has his feet based on the concaves, but he's also riding way more aggressively than 90 % of the people out there.
Daniel Paronetto (47:43)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (47:55)
I'm like, well,
I don't do that. So β that's maybe why, but I can see, you know, you know, obviously the more the concave, the more connected you would feel, but β then not everybody likes that. So I try to keep it more.
subtle like enough that you get a enough that you get a positive β you know you get a positive feedback from the board with the concave and enough that it makes sense to improve your riding but not too much that it makes it uncomfortable on like longer rides or or if that makes sense
Daniel Paronetto (48:16)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. β I haven't experienced much.
Yeah. Like, this concave on the deck, had one down winter board, which had it. I, I didn't like it at all. I felt the board had such a small sweet spot for me to stand on. Cause I felt like the mast angle would like was being affected by where I was standing because of the, like, I was like, my God, I can't ride this board. And then I finally.
found the sweet spot, but it was tiny, man. I'm like, I have no adjustment on this board and I felt a little bit restrictive. So I think a little bit will be interesting to see how it feels. β and I think the last thing on the 65 liter board, which I noticed that you have why inserts is it why inserts on the front and no inserts on the back.
Francesco Maffei (49:25)
Yeah, we did that because β we still wanted to put inserts on the front because we felt like a lot of people still use, majority of riders use just the front strap because not everybody's jumping and it gives you enough, β it gives you that little bit of extra control riding, like help for getting up and the reason why we didn't put the back foot in
Daniel Paronetto (49:42)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (49:55)
strap insert on the production boards is because we β really wanted to use the same construction that we use on the downwind boards to keep them light and that is not how like all the axis wing boards that have full inserts they're built different because if you put a back foot insert β you know one thing is if you know
Daniel Paronetto (50:06)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (50:23)
we're talking for your board, you're like, I want the back foot insert just for riding waves. I'm not going to jump it. Now I'm like, okay. Then I do one lay carbon layup. If you tell me I want the back foot insert, cause I'm going to send big jumps. Then I'm like, okay, I'll, know, I need to change my carbon layup cause you just told me you're going to jump it. So, and you're, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say, well, I'm gonna have to reinforce a little bit. It's going to be slightly heavier, still light, but it'll be a little bit heavier. And then
Daniel Paronetto (50:44)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (50:53)
most of the times it'd be like, okay, it's fine. Cause I just want to jump it. But if, it's the production, once you put that back foot insert, it's like, well, you're not going to ask everybody like, you know, just surf with it. Don't jump it. So that's why we didn't put it in there. Cause we really want it to do a lightweight board. And if we did put the insert, it would have to be the heavier construction.
Daniel Paronetto (51:16)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (51:23)
which most people are probably not gonna jump this board so it would have been like, doesn't make much sense and that's why there's only the front foot insert.
Daniel Paronetto (51:34)
So for this 65 though, for myself, I would jump it. I would do want to jump it. Yeah, in hood, there was a day that I just went out on the four two in like 30 knots and just got yarded out there trying to jump and do stuff. And it's not something I do all the time, but I do want to be able to do it once in a while.
Francesco Maffei (51:41)
Okay.
once in a while.
Daniel Paronetto (52:00)
And I think I always regretted not having proper inserts in some of the boards that are a little bit smaller. And I'm like, God, on a day that you just want to muck around a little bit, I'm like, I can't. So I would definitely get rear foot inserts on that one. β But then also, you know,
Francesco Maffei (52:16)
Yeah, yeah, that that's fine
because it's not gonna make a big difference
Daniel Paronetto (52:20)
And then obviously like what you mentioned Everybody says that your boards are extremely light like I spoke with sin bad. I spoke with kin β When I saw that video of JD following him. I'm like, god. Okay, I sent some text to kin I'm like, what would you change on that board? He's like well Not much. It's pretty good. He was he was happy with it β And he did mention what you said
Francesco Maffei (52:23)
Second and wait.
Hehehehe. Hehehehe.
Daniel Paronetto (52:49)
β about the rocker on, the concave and things like that, but it was just more of a personal preference kind of thing rather than performance really. And I think he's very used to that kind of stuff. β so here I have a note, make it as light as possible. Obviously I think that's what all of us want, but in terms of the 65 liter board, think that's, β that's kind of it. That's what I have for you, man.
Francesco Maffei (52:56)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess I think so I would say so If you're jump it and I need to change the layup a little bit, it won't take much weight so I think wall wall 70, sorry 60 liter board with the pad was Given that his board was I sprayed it with
Different finish because it's clear carbon so to make it look nice. I have to do this different finish So that adds a little bit of weight and the clear carbon with he wanted Well, he didn't say much she's like β I like these colors then you go to town so I did clear carbon with really bright colors like kind of streaks on it and Whenever I do any sort of resin art, let's call it resin art
It will be a little heavier because when I'm sanding I can't sand as deep as I would if it was just one color Otherwise the everything's gone. Like there's no more no more graphic β but his board was β Seven point three pounds with the pad 60 liter
Daniel Paronetto (54:31)
3.3 pounds that's pretty good. Let's see what's in kilos
Francesco Maffei (54:35)
and then the last one I did that was a 60 let me grab it I forgot if I took a picture uh I wrote it on the order form but I just finished a 65 liter board
Daniel Paronetto (54:49)
Pretty good weight, 3.3 kilos.
Francesco Maffei (54:50)
That was
yeah, this I'm going to grab the order form, but this other one, I think it came out. Oh, well, that one had the this one had three callers. So it was about like seven pounds. I remember now, but if you do, you know, just one caller, it will save a little weight, but let's say a 60 liter, 65 liter, it's about seven and a half pounds. Call it that.
Daniel Paronetto (55:06)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (55:17)
with the extra carbon for the jumping you know you still be under like eight pounds it'll be like seven and three quarters or something you
Daniel Paronetto (55:30)
and a half kilos, man. That's light. That's still very light.
Francesco Maffei (55:32)
Yeah, so you're under you're
under four kilos Yeah, simbad was six six and a half pounds, but hers is definitely not jumpable Hers was like she she just asked me
Daniel Paronetto (55:40)
Wow. Yeah. No, I, I'm surprised she got something not jumpable
because she wanted to jump. But like, remember her like, I want to send some. then I think now she has so many boards that she could choose the board that she'll go out to jump.
Francesco Maffei (55:52)
Yeah, I think... β
she wanted, she wanted to jump and then she got Ken, well, Ken made her a board when she went to her driver in July. And then she came and she came back and she was like, no, I just want to, β well, I think if she tried.
Daniel Paronetto (56:06)
Yep, I saw that board.
Francesco Maffei (56:16)
the last prototype that I made for Walt and that was it's kind of light but it's just a fiberglass like hand lamb quick prototype it wasn't like it was light because it was just made to be used like almost like disposable boarders I just want to get it done in two days and send it to Walt have him try it and she was like β I want it light I'm like okay but then you can't jump she's like I don't care just make it like
Daniel Paronetto (56:26)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (56:43)
go to town make it light and I'm like okay and
Daniel Paronetto (56:46)
Done.
I like when you push the boundaries and we'll get into, we'll get into the graphics, β towards the end because all of them can have kind of the same vibe. But, let's move into the, to the midi. Is there anything else in the sinker that we need to talk about?
Francesco Maffei (56:57)
Uh-huh.
it.
β well, so if you want straps then It would be nice to get You know before we finalize everything if if you have a board that you ride With straps, it's nice to have your stance. β What's your stance so that I can? and then usually There's a million ways. I mean there's only one
Daniel Paronetto (57:17)
Yep, I'll send that to you.
Francesco Maffei (57:25)
couple good ways of measuring it, people get carried away. Usually a good measurement is you need to know your foot strap spread. So what's the distance between the back and the front of your foot strap? Because some people ride, like in windsurfing, it's really narrow. It's like five and a half, six inches is pretty wide.
Daniel Paronetto (57:48)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (57:51)
And in winging, goes anywhere between six and like some people ride like seven, eight inches, like the really long strap. So that's kind of the first measurement. And then what's the distance between your, the back of the front foot strap and the, the front of your back foot strap. makes sense. Like the distance between the two screws, like the, front screw of your back foot strap and the
Daniel Paronetto (58:16)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (58:20)
back screw of your front foot strap. Cause then if I know that I know how wide your spread of the strap is, then I can, you know, make up my own number. β And then it will be, and then it will be, you know, the five holes inserts. you have, you have four inches of play. So you can move β around.
Daniel Paronetto (58:32)
Nice. I'll do that. I'll send you that stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (58:49)
uh, like I have a customer I'm making his board, uh, this week, he, he wants to strap inserts, only on his, uh, stand side. Like he's not gonna, I don't know if he's not gonna switch foot or if he's only gonna jump on that side or if he's riding only once, but he only wants it one on, his, uh, strong stance. Uh, which is fine, but
Daniel Paronetto (59:11)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (59:14)
If you want to, if you ride both ways, which a lot of, um, at least I learned to ride both ways, kite folding is it's really awkward to ride all crooked. Um, so I don't know if that's what you do too, but it's nice to have the Y because then you can, you can switch your feet and you have good stands both directions. Even if you only want to jump one direction, but it makes it. The Y is good.
Daniel Paronetto (59:35)
Yeah, I think it's... Definitely
the wave. Yeah, definitely the wave.
Francesco Maffei (59:42)
I just can't, I mean, from winging, was just brutal. Like I would stay switch stance, sometimes at kaha, just because maybe I kicked off a wave like right after taking off because it wasn't that great of a wave and I'll ride switch stance for like 50 yards and be like, my back was all killing me. I'm like, how do people ride like this for hours? I just can't.
Daniel Paronetto (1:00:03)
Yeah,
especially if you're going upwind for half a kilometer or a K to then do a send with a pair of wings down. And you get better angles as well when you swap your foot. It takes a little bit to learn, but it's worth getting dialed in pretty early.
Francesco Maffei (1:00:09)
yeah.
yeah.
Yeah, totally.
Daniel Paronetto (1:00:22)
Um,
sick. Happy with that. Happy with Um, MIDI. What are we doing with the mid length? Let me see what I have in my notes here for the mid length board, moderate wind board. So that's the board that I'll go out in 18 to 24 knots. Normally on a four meter, three and a half, sometimes even a three meter. If it's on the top end, like, you know, 22, 24 knots, I can still go out on a small parawing with it. No, no issue.
Francesco Maffei (1:00:27)
Ready.
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (1:00:49)
And then with that board, I would probably be on a bigger foil, like a 980S, and that has an aspect ratio of 9.5. β I'd be using it for downwinders. I'd be using it to do laps, ride waves, all the stuff. I think you can still do it with this board. β Y inserts, just similar inserts. β Also jumping ability with it. I know it's a little bit bigger, but I want to be able to do that if I want to with that board. β
Francesco Maffei (1:00:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (1:01:19)
And again, then we can talk about the dimensions to get it around that four inch mark would be good. So what I have in mind is a six, so by 19 and a half as well, 85 liters. And I wouldn't be opposed to going six to Max to get the, that thickness a little bit down if it's too thick, but let's see where it lands.
Francesco Maffei (1:01:32)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, because the 6-0 19 and a half production, it's four and three quarters thick. So around there and then, know, pad and this is just from the file. But if I go, let's say we go we're at 85 and it's about
Daniel Paronetto (1:01:55)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:02:13)
for...
it's probably closer to five inches thick which um oh that one that one is uh for i mean i know it's hard to see through the screen but so that 80 liter board
So that's a six out by 19 and a half. so yeah, so then it'll be, yes, four and three quarters thick, that one. So if you go six, two to get 85, it's gonna be closer to five inches. To get to four, it would be, we would have to go pretty wide. Let me try if I go 20.
Daniel Paronetto (1:02:55)
Yeah, and this is the cool thing, like when you are doing a custom board, this is a kind of thing that you can really not down to the, you know, as close as you can to maximize what you want out of the board.
Francesco Maffei (1:03:03)
Yeah.
Yeah, totally. yeah, so if we go to 20 then you're back around four and three quarters. at the 19 and a half. It wasn't really five. It was like 4.8 something. my opinion, it might be better stay. I feel like you'll get more advantages.
from the bore being a half inch narrower. because the difference in like this is, so the 6'2", 19 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Yeah, the half inch of width, it makes a big difference in the board speed. from all the soft race boards, like a half inch makes it seems like not a lot, but it makes a bit of a difference. And you're only
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:09)
Yeah. And I think that's where
saving a tiny bit and it's like you said, the, difference in the thickness is not going to make that much difference. But when you're looking at a board that you're going to be getting up in lighter winds, and I am looking to use this board in 18 knots, 18 knots, you'll need to produce the speed a lot from your board, like 50 % coming from the parawing, 50 % coming from your efforts on the board. Right. And.
Francesco Maffei (1:04:30)
speed.
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:36)
As you progress into lighter winds, you go even like 20 % from the para wing, 80 % from the board. know, so I think you're right when you, when you say I'm not going to be gaining much from the thinness, but you are going to gain heaps from just having the speed of the board on the water.
Francesco Maffei (1:04:54)
so six
two nineteen and a half eighty five
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:59)
current 85 liter board is 18 wide and it's so quirky. It's like over six inches thick. It's so quirky and I really want to change. think this is, it's a five tenth.
Francesco Maffei (1:04:59)
Yes, 4.8 in the middle.
How long is it?
Yeah, that's the thing if you go if you go that narrow you gotta go gotta go long like like the You know in the six five six six range then then it makes sense because You start to get close to the seven foot range that gives you that stability with nose to tail stability with going narrow Which you don't get if it's too short
Daniel Paronetto (1:05:25)
Mm.
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:05:46)
too short, too narrow. Like you said, it feels quirky because it ends up being thick and it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's five, 10, but it's not that long. Like my 55 liter mid length I use for proning is five, seven, but it's 55 liters. You pretty much taking that board and you stick, you know, 30 liters on it. It's not going to. So any, if, if, if you're trying to get this board thinner,
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:02)
Yeah. Yep.
Francesco Maffei (1:06:15)
And since it's a light wind thing, I would maybe say, you know, maybe instead of going 20, maybe go 64. And then you have, I can try real quick and see if we go 64.
and 19 and a
you're gonna be.
so you'll be 4, 4.7 inches thick in the middle.
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:39)
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (1:06:39)
so you get your your you want you you have 19 and a half which is a good width and you have those two extra inches which will give you more support for the for working the board and the board will being longer when you pump on it it will generate more speed compared to like a shorter board if that makes sense but you know then it's like if if if
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:02)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:07:09)
This would be just my approach like, oh, it's a light wind board. I want it thinner. I was like, okay, well then let's go longer. Let's don't go wider. And then what we did on the 65, that made more sense to go wide because well, you don't really need the length because you're going to have the wind most likely because it's your smaller board.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:19)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:07:33)
And we're happy with the width because it's going to make it more stable because, if you're in the water, when it's 30 knots, the water is little rougher than when it's 15 knots. So it's harder to stand. And when you're up, you're going faster. So the extra width, it gives you more control over the foil. Now, when you're going light wind, know, length and volume is your friend. And having the length allows you to stay relatively narrow.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:44)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:08:02)
and narrow is good for, you know, acceleration. mean, that 19 and a half, you know, compared to the downwind boards, that's like huge, but still for a wing board, it's pretty narrow. And it keeps the outline nice and streamlined and parallel, which it's nice for the initial acceleration. So that would be my approach. Like, you somebody asked me,
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:02)
Mm-hmm.
It's huge.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:08:27)
I want to go thinner is my light wind board. Okay, let's keep it at the width that we like and just go a couple inches longer and then you'll get the thinner board. And then of course, then you got to keep in mind like, oh, okay, like in this case, we want inserts for jumping. It's like, okay, we're, are you going to jump and, you know, just little hops here and there, you're going to try to like freestyle moves. Cause if you try to do rotations and stuff, then maybe, maybe you do want
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:55)
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:08:57)
shorter and a little wider. So, but then you'll be giving up a little bit of that early planning. So it's, it's always like, like a, what, do you want? What are you going to be doing the most? Like if, if you tell me, β I just want to abort like a, it's called a freestyle board and I just want to go out and do tricks all day long and then, okay, well then, you know, you're probably going to be going out a little more powered up to what a normal person would do because you need the power.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:26)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:09:27)
from the wing to do that kind of stuff. So if we do go shorter and wider, it's not going to affect you much because you're already going out more powered up than what's necessary just to have the power to do the tricks. And having the board a couple inches shorter on aerial rotations, makes a huge difference. And the width of...
for controlling the foil and like on the landings. It's just different β approaches.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:56)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I'll tell you exactly what I'm thinking about when I say jumping. When I say jumping, I'm not going to go out and do like a freestyle day on these boards, like you're saying. For me, it's more the ability to be riding a wave, even if it's a powered up kind of wave riding scenario and like clear a section and, you know, be able to jump and land maybe in the flat or whatever, but not being concerned that you're going to, you know, screw your board if you do that. But like, I don't, I don't see myself doing
freestyle with parawinging. I'm more, yeah, I just want to be able to jump, but it's not like I'm going to go out on a session and be just doing spins or whatever. It's more like powered up wave riding. And yeah, if I want to go and hug a jump off a wave going out, yeah, I want to be able to do that. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (1:10:33)
Hahaha.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think,
you know, in that case, know, having a little, like if you, if a 6-2 is good, but if you want like that thinner deck, you know, I think going with that extra length, that'll be maybe still a good option for you because you're, you're not like, I'm going to do rotations or anything like that. And like, really when you're riding,
Daniel Paronetto (1:11:18)
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:11:20)
you know, a six two or a six four, how these boards are designed to be written from, you know, a pretty center position, like two inches is not like a huge difference. You know, it's like, on the softs too, like sometimes we go all from a six. Like I went from eight six to eight nine. Uh, that when I'm riding, I'm like, it's about the same. It's three inches more, but it's.
Daniel Paronetto (1:11:47)
Yeah, interesting.
Francesco Maffei (1:11:49)
It's more for like what those couple extra inches allow you to work on in other aspects of the design that makes the difference. It's not much like, it's just two inches longer. It's like, yes, two inches longer because we're trying to get the deck thinner, but we want to keep the width. So it's like, it's not just the number.
Daniel Paronetto (1:11:57)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
I always like, β I don't want to like six, four sounds so big, but like you said, β you know, and the other thing I ride with my, β my mass pretty far up on, on, on the tracks, like as far up as I can for it to be balanced. because I want like the board to feel as short as it can when I'm on a mid-length board. β
Francesco Maffei (1:12:26)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:12:34)
And if the board is, like if everything is working on the board, know, the deck, like where everything is, you can really reduce the feeling of those mid-length boards dramatically by just, you know, offsetting your feet a little bit further forward.
Francesco Maffei (1:12:44)
yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Because you're not riding from the back like a surfboard.
Daniel Paronetto (1:12:50)
All right, look, like, even though I'm a little,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Like even though I'm a little hesitant to go six four, β I will, I will do what you tell me to do. Like six two, six four, like if it's not gonna make that much difference, I don't mind. But I think what you said is really crucial that, you know, the thickness of the board, if that's, if that's why we're doing it.
Francesco Maffei (1:13:01)
We can stick to 6-2.
No.
Daniel Paronetto (1:13:16)
We're not going to get too much benefit out of that. Like it's, it's a small difference, you know, I don't know, 4.6 to 4.8, 4.9. Um, and then just having a little bit of a smaller board. Cause the other thing, and this is a very personal thing, I needed to fit into my van in a drawer that I already have built. Um, and I know that my range there is six oh to six, two. So without me having to.
Francesco Maffei (1:13:17)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Hehehehe
β we
stick to 6-2
Daniel Paronetto (1:13:46)
do redo without me having
to redo too much on the van.
Francesco Maffei (1:13:50)
we stick to 6-2 then. 6-2 good enough. Sometimes that's what makes decisions a lot easier. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:13:51)
Yeah
Yeah, like
it's where it fits bro. I can't do anything else.
Francesco Maffei (1:14:00)
β That's it 621 why 6 twos at all yeah, there's the thickness and I just it fits in the drawer
Daniel Paronetto (1:14:02)
And then
It's in the
drawer, then the last board it's it is the board that I currently have My down window board my sub down window board. It's an 8 to And it's 115 liters, but that's what I use like in the ocean You know to paddle up and I think that's just way too big way too tracky for the parawing So what I want to do with that board is go
Francesco Maffei (1:14:11)
It's most important thing.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:14:35)
to something like more of a sub waveboard. So something that I can still go out and catch a wave with the paddle, but it will allow me to go into parawinging when it's like marginal and sub 18 knots kind of thing, right? And then I'm on a four meter. The foils that I'll be riding there is like the 1130S. So big foil. If I'm downwinding, I'll still be on a 770R. So I need to be able to.
Francesco Maffei (1:14:43)
Yeah.
yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:15:05)
paddle it up and then the ability to surf with it because to be honest man like I want to be able to paddle it up but I don't know how much I'm gonna be doing that these days like it's very rare for me to get a paddle now and I still have the paddle it's still there so I want to be able to at least catch away with it no inserts on this board as light as possible and I'm thinking a 7-2 7-2
Francesco Maffei (1:15:07)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (1:15:34)
by
19 and a half, 105 liters. That's where my head's at with that one.
think the volume there in this board is really important to me. Like I don't want to go sub a hundred because I don't think I can paddle that up, especially on a seven two.
Francesco Maffei (1:15:52)
Yeah.
started riding shorter. Well, I started on a six five sup when I the first two diamond runs I've ever done and but it was a you know, the 26 I think it was 26 wide it was one of Mark's Mark Ruppelhorst flying Dutchman boards because I was working with him and I was like I want to try it. He's like, okay, there you go.
He don't have your hopes to up high, but go try it. said, come on. I got this and didn't have it. β But then after that, just kept, yeah, after that I kept going, you know, longer and longer and narrower. And after last year races, β I was riding, I was riding a nine four by 16 all year pretty much. And I was like, β
Daniel Paronetto (1:16:18)
Yep.
They didn't have it.
Francesco Maffei (1:16:43)
It was getting kind of boring because I'm like, well, I can get up like I was getting up with foils that I couldn't ride because they're too small for me to ride in the body. I the cardio to keep them going. But I was able to pop up. So I'm like, OK, well, I guess if I can do that, then what if I make a shorter board? Actually, well, actually, that's not quite how it It went like I made my parawing board. That that I.
Daniel Paronetto (1:16:47)
Mm.
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:17:12)
almost killed myself with the 40 day 40 knots day at Kaha. And that was going to be my big problem for Kaha. And then my friend Guido that rides for me, he saw the board, he's like, oh, I'm going to flat water that thing. I'm like, oh, you go, my friend. It was a 77 liter board. I'm like, you go. And I was like, well, if there's one person that can do it, him because he's a beast. He comes to the shop, grabs the board. Within an hour, he calls me freaking out.
Daniel Paronetto (1:17:27)
Yeah
Jesus.
Francesco Maffei (1:17:41)
I'm going for a downwind run on it. was like, okay, go. And then people started asking me, oh, what are you thinking when you designed that SUP? was like, well, that was supposed to be my prone board. I'm like, let me make us like something I can SUP with those dimensions. And so we made the 6.8 by 18 and a half. And it was really fun to go from, you know, the 9.4 to a 6.8 because
Daniel Paronetto (1:17:45)
Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:18:11)
Now you're challenged again, but it was it was the the board was still like working, you know, I one size up on the foil and you do have to wait, you know, you got to time it a little bit with the bumps. You're not just going to stand up and go, you got to stand up. And the main thing is the board needs to be stable enough that you can wait. And when it's time to put power down, you're stable and you can put power down as soon as it's needed, because if.
Daniel Paronetto (1:18:18)
Yep.
Francesco Maffei (1:18:36)
If it's unstable, the bump comes and you're like, like, β like trying to hold yourself together. by the time you're piling, the bumps gone and forget it. β So that was kind of like when I made those boards, you know, we're having a blast. Like I used that board for two months until I used for downwind for like two months and it was super fun. β And so it is, you know, when you start going shorter,
Daniel Paronetto (1:18:41)
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (1:19:05)
you it will be harder to get up, but you just have to be patient and wait. Like if you're, if you're going out, like all the customers that asked me for shorter stops, I was like, well, you're not going to race, right? So you're not in a hurry. You just get up, you're going to wait for the right bond, but you most likely using a bigger foil most of the time with this board. If you are going to downwind with it, β you know, obviously don't use your 600 front wing is
Daniel Paronetto (1:19:11)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:19:35)
going to unless you're, you know, top 15 riders and M2O, you probably can't get up. But it's just it's a different way of riding. You know, that's the race board. Everybody that wants a race board, it's like instant. Like I need to get up on my feet up on foot in 30 seconds. Like there's no can be waiting for the right bump. β So I think for so.
Daniel Paronetto (1:19:35)
You
Yeah.
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (1:20:01)
I was, so that was a hundred liter board and I was about 85 kilos back then. So that was 15 liters more than my weight. And now, uh, like 20, usually for the subs I do anywhere between 20 and 30 to 35 above your weight, uh, in kilos. So the 105 is pretty good at the low end of the volume range.
Daniel Paronetto (1:20:08)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:20:31)
and I would, and also going shorter boards, I always β try to tell people like, well you want to be in the lower range of your, of the volume because if you make a seven foot board that is the same volume as your eight foot board, you're going to hate it because it's going to be so quirky you can't even stand on it. So you want it to sit down a little bit. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:20:54)
Yeah, right. Yep.
Francesco Maffei (1:21:00)
which obviously is now helping you with the getting up because the, now you're like, I have a shorter board. doesn't have the same speed and it's sinking more. how is it going to work? And like, well, the way it works is you're, you're not counting on board speed. Like throughout you standing on the board is more the acceleration that you're going to need. Like when I was riding
Daniel Paronetto (1:21:11)
Mm.
Yeah, right.
Francesco Maffei (1:21:24)
If I'm running my nine foot board, stand on the board and just standing there, I can feel like I'm moving somewhere. If, if, yeah, like you, you know, sometimes the bumps, even like pick you up and you accelerate and then you go to the seventh of the boards and you stand up and you feel like you just there, like you're not moving at all. But when, when it's, β when it's time to paddle, it accelerates. all you, all you need is
Daniel Paronetto (1:21:30)
You're tracking, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:21:53)
being able to balance and wait. And then when it's time to go, the board needs to accelerate and release really good because you're not going after board speed. You're going after acceleration. I get up on foil, the thing releases and that's it. And also because you're probably riding a bigger foil, you're able to just, as soon as you accelerate, you can ollie up that foil where if you're riding a race foil, you can't ollie it up. It will just drop.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:01)
Mmm.
Yep, work it.
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (1:22:23)
you need that bore speed to accelerate and keep the speed increasing until you reach the speed for the foil to get up and support you because you can't all the up at 600 front wing. just disclaimer, this 7 foot board is not going to have the same bore speed as a 9 foot board, but you think it's pretty obvious, but sometimes it's not.
So I like to do my little disclaimer.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:52)
No, it's worth mentioning it. Yeah,
it's worth mentioning because I am coming from that A2, which is not that long, to be honest. Like it's long, but I wanted it in between ocean and bay because that's my only downwind board. So I didn't want it too long. But now when I think about what I'm going to be using this board for is more sup surf than sup which is easy to get a
Francesco Maffei (1:23:03)
and
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:23:19)
Like if you're on a wave, like if you position yourself well, then whatever. Like it's the wave. Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (1:23:21)
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then it kind of goes along. It's it's kind of like the same concept. in the waves, you need stability. You need to be able to put power down when it's needed. And you're not really getting bore speed, just accelerating with the wave and you take off. So it's the same same concept. And so I think, you know, that's seven to nineteen and a
Daniel Paronetto (1:23:33)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:23:45)
It'll be a good dimension because you'll stability and it's nice and short enough that when you're up, you can ride the wave the in your way or hitting the wave or whatever. this will be great for light wind parawinging. I used,
the 100, the 1, no, I think it was the 1, the 110, will be what this board is for your weight and proportion. When I was in Hojriver, I think it was the second or third day of AWSI, was really light wind in the morning. And I just went out partying and it was super fun you know, even though as a sup is not as efficient as like a longer board would be, it's still like
being a foot longer than your 85 liter, it's way more efficient than that board. So you just like, you feel like you just pump it and it just gets the speed and you get up on full way easier. So I think, I think that will be a good, good dimensions for it. For, very light wind parawing, let's have a friend that he he's borrowing, he's trying the, the 110 production of the Dart.
Daniel Paronetto (1:24:34)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (1:24:59)
And he was running a 65 liter parawing board before and I gave him the 110 and then he's just having a blast. He's like, I can just stand there. I get up, I go out and he's like, I'm not doing crazy turn. I'm just riding the waves. And he's just like, I get up in two seconds. I go out and I turn and I come in and he actually likes the extra board to keep it. It keeps the foil more stable because you get the
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:17)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:25:30)
It's like downwind like if you downwind on an eight foot board and you go downwind on a six foot board, the six foot board feels all twitchy or the longer board it's more subtle. It's like set, it keeps the foil. So he's having a blast. He's like, I don't know if I want to give you that board back. Because he's just like, it's so much easier.
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:37)
Yeah.
And it's funny because it also
to go out on a two-five pair of wings. Like a tiny pair of wings is so much fun. I think the same way people downsize their foils because it's more fun, having less wing in your hand is easier to stow, easier to pack, better redeploys, you get in a better flow. So on a good day when it's sub 20 knots, you might even consider that just to be able to get more of that.
Francesco Maffei (1:25:56)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:26:17)
Like more time on foil, more time riding. I like that.
Francesco Maffei (1:26:20)
Yeah,
yeah. And then the waves too, if it's light wind, but there's waves, you know, you can go out with that and you just catch a million waves if you don't want to paddle. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:26:28)
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I never want to paddle anymore. I say I want the ability to be able to do it and I want a paddle in the van because I'm scared to one day want it. But man, I can't remember the last time it went out on the paddle. no, I can't. was probably, it was probably six months ago now, six to maybe eight months ago. I haven't touched the paddle.
Francesco Maffei (1:26:32)
β Yeah.
wow. Yeah,
Walt wanted a... Because he was in Hood this summer while we were doing the prototypes and he's like, man, I really... He's like, feel like I'm missing out. Like I want a sup for the light wind days or like just to sup once in a while. And I think he's just using it for power when he wants light.
Daniel Paronetto (1:27:05)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's it. Because you're like, β there's still wind out there. I can
still use the para-wing and not have the paddle in my hand. And then, yeah, ultimately it becomes a para-wing board. But yeah.
Francesco Maffei (1:27:18)
Yeah, no, and it's still like
I tried it. I tried it and it's like I said, you know, if you compare it to a longer stuff, it's not that efficient. But if you compare it to your shorter, like one foot shorter powering board going a foot longer, it's like mind blowing. It's so much so much more efficient. And and this board to you, right? Like again, you ride it from the center. So
Daniel Paronetto (1:27:34)
Mmm.
yet.
Francesco Maffei (1:27:48)
When you're up, yes, it's a seven two, but it doesn't, you know, it feels a little bigger. Obviously when you're, when you're turning, you know, it's a seven foot board. It's not a six foot board, but it's still very lively. And it's, it's, it's not like you see like a giant board in front of you. So it's, still a playful board. And with the advantages of, I just going to go out and I'm going to be on foil a hundred percent of the time.
Daniel Paronetto (1:27:50)
Mmm.
Yeah.
yet.
Francesco Maffei (1:28:18)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:28:18)
Yeah, and I'm coming from an 8'2 so that's a whole foot shorter from what I'm used to and narrow board as well. So I feel like when I am using that board for parawinging in light winds, it is hard to stay up on it because it tracks so much. And as soon as you get a little gust, you know, the board doesn't turn at all. So it's easy to get bucked off the board, not because of the swell, more because of you just getting unstable because of the parawings.
Francesco Maffei (1:28:36)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:28:48)
A little bit wider, a little bit more sticky to the water is not a bad thing I think in pairwing. You don't want that forward projection. Like you mentioned, sometimes you're just on the board and the bump's already taking you. You're like, whoa, I need to turn this a little bit upwind, otherwise I can't get up.
Francesco Maffei (1:28:54)
Yeah.
Yeah,
well, one, they'll get, yeah, and then, this board, yeah, it's really, uh, it's not like the race boards, it slides, um, it, yaws a little, it's able to yaw a little more than compared to the race board. So that's because we wanted, um, you know, when I was talking with Adrian and Evan about, you know, this new boards coming out, we all kind of had the same idea of, let's make them.
Daniel Paronetto (1:29:16)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:29:33)
β Let's make them more of a wide range of use kind of boards so that you want the mid-length. You can use it for the small ones. You can prone it. You can wing it. If you're light enough, you can parawing even the smaller one. And really all up to maybe the 70 liter might start to be a little too big for proning, but
You know, 60 liter prone, you can still prone it and the SUP we're like, oh, let's make it as a SUP for the surf and for downwind and bay run conditions. But also I keep in mind, you know, somebody's going to want to use this for parawinging, light wind or, you know, so that's kind of what we kept in mind for the design. I'm like, oh, I need a
Daniel Paronetto (1:30:16)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:30:30)
have this board be able to just slide straight down when if you need to if you have too much power you gotta slide the board down when to get the power off and you don't want it to track too much because it's not like even for winging it's not good like I remember β last year when I went to Italy I only had my β 710s up and I brought my wings
Daniel Paronetto (1:30:40)
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (1:30:53)
I was like, maybe I'll wing here and there. And then I went out once and I hated it because I'm like, this is like terrible because I just track straight and I'm just like, I don't want to go straight. So β that's kind of what we were trying to make these boards a little more with a broad spectrum of use. So it's not. It tracks enough that if you paddle, you know, you're not just going sideways, but it.
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:02)
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:31:21)
It has that ability of sliding around when you need to, which is good.
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:25)
Yeah.
And these boards look sick, man. I'm just looking here again at the Axis website. So seven β to seven eight in two inch increments, 90 liters to 130 liters, 10 liter difference. These are awesome specs, man. My first board, β back in the day, it wasn't really β that long. It was a seven four, I think.
Francesco Maffei (1:31:38)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:51)
By 125 liters of super quirky and wide, like 21 wide. And I was able to paddle that up like, and I sucked. Um, and then went onto the, the eight two and yeah, stuck with that board. But now going back to para-winging, I wish I had the other one because it's more what I need for para-winging.
Francesco Maffei (1:31:52)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
yeah, was probably, you know, you probably were able to paddle it straight enough that you were able to sup it. But, you know, it still is slides around a little more, which is good for the waves to get here. Riding in the waves and you touch down, you want to be able to kind of break that board loose and get back up on foil. So, yeah, I think I think that'll be seven to nineteen and half, 105. I think that'll be a fun.
Daniel Paronetto (1:32:11)
Nice!
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:32:39)
fun board for light wind, wind or just bay runs. It'll be sweet. I'm going to make me one of these real soon because Ka'a is about to be really good. As soon as the wind stops.
Daniel Paronetto (1:32:54)
Yeah, yeah. We ended up 19 and a half in all
the boards, which is kind of cool. Like I don't mind having some consistency like in the width to have the kind of a same feel. Like I don't like going from a 16 wide to then a 20 wide. Like it's such a big difference and you notice it so much. so having all these boards with the same width is kind of not that we planned for it, but I don't mind that at all. I think it's a cool little feature there.
Francesco Maffei (1:32:59)
Yeah.
yeah.
Yeah, I think it's good. Like you said, β you know, the width is important when the board is in the water, but even more when you're up on focus, you know, hopefully you're more on follow than in the water. And to have the same width, it will feel all the boards when you jump from one size to the next. It will feel very similar. It might.
you know, the bigger board, you know, the seven two, if you're going to ride it with, you know, most likely a bigger foil, it will feel a little bit stiffer maybe to turn the foil. But because you're you, you know, on the eighty five and the sixty five, you're most likely going to you can use the same. I you can use the same foil on the on the seven two as well. But if you're going to use the bigger foil,
on the 7-2 that that will be what makes it feel a little stiffer because with that board it is allowing you to use the bigger foil to go out when it's very light or like for the waves or but you can still probably use the what was the foil used on the 85 the
Daniel Paronetto (1:34:25)
Mm-hmm.
980 980 on a like if it's if it's if it's around like 20 1820 knots I'll be on the 980 which I can definitely use on the 7 to that 980 has so much bottom end. It's ridiculous. Yeah
Francesco Maffei (1:34:45)
The 980.
Yeah.
Yeah. So let's say you use the 980 on the three boards, it'll probably feel, all three boards, like rail to rail, will probably feel very similar. Because obviously the SOC, like this is going to be like five.
Daniel Paronetto (1:35:05)
Mmm.
That's cool.
Francesco Maffei (1:35:18)
5.4 inches thick. So again, it's not that.
Daniel Paronetto (1:35:21)
That's good, man. Like
it's not bad. Like I'm used to six. My supper six
Francesco Maffei (1:35:29)
Yeah, you see my 8.9 that I'm using now, 8.9 by 16, 118 liters. Sorry, 117, yeah 118 is 6.8 thick. But that's on 8.9 by 16, 120 liters.
Daniel Paronetto (1:35:36)
Mm.
6.8, yeah.
Yeah. And I think that's
where we can, we can play around. when we talk about parawing specific boards, those are the things that you can buy a sub downwind board and it'll work. But if you're doing a custom and you can really dial these things in and make it as thin as you want, like I, I find it hard to buy something off the rack because I look at the specs and I'm like, β it's two inches off. know, like you get very specific in the end, like, don't know how much difference it makes really. Like I'm an average rider. I'm not a.
Francesco Maffei (1:36:02)
yeah.
β yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:36:17)
know, freaking pro, but yeah.
Francesco Maffei (1:36:19)
but
that's it's nice to it's nice to you know, if it's it's like Because like you say you get you see something off the rocks and you're like, It could be like a half inch Never let's say but like whatever. I'll buy it. Anyways, then you go out and then you're like, If it was a half inch narrow, it would be so much better. You like the whole time, you know, I think like if it I think like if it if it's β
Daniel Paronetto (1:36:39)
Yeah. That's why I suck.
Francesco Maffei (1:36:47)
The production boards, really good. β Weight-wise, they're really good. β The shape is the same. And the only downside is that you cannot pick the color and you cannot pick the size. And we can't do a million sizes. So even for me, like, yeah, it would be better to do every five liters, but then...
the logistics of production. like, it's a whole, you know, now you got to make twice as many boards, like how many of each, and then you're going to be like, like somebody that, oh, I want the 65, like, oh, I have the 60 in stock and it'll still work for you. Like, no, but I really want the 65. So I think if, I think that's why we kept it pretty simple. Like every two inches, every 10 liters, you know, it's still enough to, you know, if, if you, if you can ride a 65.
Daniel Paronetto (1:37:29)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:37:40)
If you want to ride a 65, you know, you probably be fine with the 70 or with the 60 depending on what's your weight and what are you trying to do? You know, can kind of, same with the subs too, the, you know, the, Macho, the downwind boards are like every 10 liters. And I would talk to people and then, you know, they would send me emails like, Oh, should I go do the 110 or the 120? I'm like, well, you know, 115 would be ideal for your weight, but
What are we trying to do here? You know, you want to get up easy, you want more stability. But then if if if I think if you're the kind of person that looks at something like, β like. I need that half inch narrowed and the custom is then you like, I want it like that. And then and then you're able, you know, we're able to discuss it. And maybe I tell you like, well, maybe instead of half inch narrow, how about we go like an inch longer or whatever, you know, then it's.
Daniel Paronetto (1:38:09)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:38:37)
But if a thing that's where the custom comes into play, like if, if you feel that need of, I need to discuss, discuss the dimensions and I need to know if the half inch will make me much better or worse than it's, it's worth, you know, doing that custom and then plus colors and all kinds of stuff that you can, you can change. is, is if, if, if
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:02)
Yeah, let's talk colors.
Francesco Maffei (1:39:05)
That's the fun part.
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:06)
this is β My boards in the past, I tried to emulate a little bit this logo, the LabRat logo, I like having the ink splatter. I'm going to share my screen with you because I have something open that you can have a look
Francesco Maffei (1:39:06)
What you got in mind?
Uh-huh.
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:22)
Can you see the board?
Francesco Maffei (1:39:24)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:25)
so yeah, I like this kind of white base on the board with kind of like that distress feel, like just sand it down a little bit. So not completely white. And then on top, just like these ink splatters. and I like the board kind of looking like it has a virus and I call it the parowing virus. caught the pink parowing virus. β so that's just kind of like, an effect that
kind of has a kind of shape on the board and I can send you some like exactly how, but what I want to maybe avoid is here near the mast on the one on the left is these big like blobs, if you know what I mean. And just try to keep it more to ink splatters around the board and just have that like maybe like super free flowing. Like that's up to you and your art, like happy for you to go crazy on it.
Francesco Maffei (1:40:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (1:40:17)
β but I think that the lighter,
the little dots in the specs are the cooler it looks, β when you compare it to like a big blob, you know, but up to you, how you want to do it. And I think even having an interpretation of this could be cool. It doesn't have to be exactly like it. but I think the color, the color wave is cool and, β I do enjoy the, the white and then the, that hot pink.
Francesco Maffei (1:40:26)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:40:41)
but with this hot pink, I noticed as well, my, my very first board, β I think I talked to you about that. The kite foiling board, the 11 liter board, β it has the same graphics on it. And then over time, cause you know, the kite foiling boards, I think they stay in the sun a little bit more. It does fade a little bit. and what I spoke with the Shaper as we.
Francesco Maffei (1:40:50)
yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:04)
We did more and more of these. He really like punch the pigment super hard β for it to stick as long as it can. And it's been working. And I think against the white background, you know, the pink pops a lot more when you compare it to just putting it on the carbon or something like that. So β that's what I have in mind.
Francesco Maffei (1:41:22)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I did I did a board kind of like this for β for sol hiromami, β it was a sup and she Yeah So she wanted the hot pink and it seems like it's holding up pretty good I haven't I haven't seen the board in a while, but from the videos looks like it's holding up, but it's also like β the it's it's
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:33)
I saw it on your Instagram.
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (1:41:53)
It's not a matter of if it's like when it's going to fit because it will fade, you know, being a light β color because I remember I found I remember one day I was walking in fiberglass a while and I was like, β the fluorescent pink, I was going to be sick. made like the whole board, the whole deck was like fluorescent pink and it looked so good for about two days.
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:59)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:42:23)
And then
it faded I was like, β but I didn't put β You know, that was like the first time using that pigment. I just put the same amount of pigment that I usually Do with the other pigments So I was like, okay. Well mental milk next time just dump it like all in there pretty much and It but even then it will still fade I feel like all like colors I even
Daniel Paronetto (1:42:33)
Mm.
Yeah.
Francesco Maffei (1:42:50)
like fluorescent green or fluorescent yellow. Like usually if customers ask me for full, like the full board to be one of those fluorescent colors, I usually tell them like, let's do, let's have nano spray it because that's the only way that it will, it will look as bright as you want. And it will stay like that forever until you scratch it. But if you're trying to do the
Daniel Paronetto (1:42:52)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:43:18)
β the look, the your logo look, the resin will look nice cause you got the splatter. And what I can try to do is β maybe I'll put a little bit of, β definitely do the white base cause if you put the hot pink on the clear carbon, it's like, won't even see it. β Plus the.
Daniel Paronetto (1:43:36)
Yeah. Yeah. It looks like, uh, like,
yeah, it's not hot pink anymore. It's just like that kind of last set list saturated pink and it's not good.
Francesco Maffei (1:43:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, plus, the, don't want a black. I mean, my boards, I've been using black carbon boards this past summer, but I'm like, it's my board. I know how to take care of it. Put in the sun, it gets hot like instantly. It looks cool. The clear carbon with the hot color, if you can do it with the either paint or something looks really cool, but it's not, it's not really β convenient.
Daniel Paronetto (1:43:59)
Yeah.
It gets hot quick. Yeah.
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (1:44:17)
But yeah, that's something that's doable.
Daniel Paronetto (1:44:18)
Yeah, I, I've, I've, I like translating.
Yeah. I translated into the whiteboards. β and I think I'm just a little bit more comfortable with having them like that. If I'm leaving them out in the sun a little bit, but I'm pretty, I'm pretty good at not leaving the boards out. Like, but sometimes, man, even, you know, the 10 minutes that you're setting that up, you touch it and you're like, Jesus.
Francesco Maffei (1:44:30)
yeah.
Yeah, yeah, no the clear carbon is like It looks amazing, but I can tell like I As soon as I'm done setting up my foil and like if I can I'll be setting up in the shade if I cannot I'll set it up and then stream the shade but you know that that's a That's a doable doable graphic pretty pretty simple No big no big issues there
Daniel Paronetto (1:44:45)
Mm.
Yeah, it's good.
Yeah, awesome.
Well, look, I'm pretty happy where we ended with all this stuff, man. I'm excited about having the same width in these boards for some reason. Like we didn't plan it, but I think it's just a β nice thing to have. I think it'll be interesting transitioning from one to the other and just having different, like similar feels and not like stepping into a completely new board. Right now, when I go to my mid length and then I go to my sinker, I'm like, my God, there's like, you're almost.
Francesco Maffei (1:45:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:45:33)
Take that five minutes to learn again how to ride it. And then you're like, okay, we're good. So that'll be cool, man. And I'm not sure like how we're going to make this happen, but even whatever happens to these boards or these concepts, I think what we wanted to do is β just bring everyone this experience of working with you, working with a, you know, a custom shaper that is right in the cusp of everything that's new. And bringing everything that's working in Maui into other parts of the world β that they could, you know,
Francesco Maffei (1:45:40)
Yeah.
Figure it out.
Daniel Paronetto (1:46:03)
β make our lives a little bit easier getting on foil. So Frankie, is there anything else you wanna talk about, man? Like I know this was very specific to what I'm doing, but β this is your time, man. This is your platform. So feel free to let us know what's coming up for you or whatever you want, man.
Francesco Maffei (1:46:23)
Yeah, I think we covered a lot of it. β I'm just gonna my goal for this year is I really want to try to do well, I do want to do the all the channel crossings again last summer, so I'm still gonna do probably more something than parawinging but β Definitely want to try to you know, get a little better at parawinging put more time β That way I can
I can put more of my, I mean, I, this on these boards, you know, it was my personal input. then we tweaked it with Walt because he was giving me the feedback, I like eventually to get better so that I can, oh, if I have a crazy idea, I can go make, a board and go out and be like, Oh yeah. And I'll cancel that. we're like, Oh yeah, this is like the next thing. the
Daniel Paronetto (1:47:06)
Mm-hmm.
Francesco Maffei (1:47:19)
Hopefully I get more water time, which I don't get much of it because it's two kids and a bunch of orders to get done. It's hard. Especially because sometimes it's funny. get emails like, oh, the people ride me like, oh, I want to ask you and your team. I'm like, well, it's a one man team. you got the whole team listening.
Daniel Paronetto (1:47:43)
Just go like that,
and my mate over here.
Francesco Maffei (1:47:48)
Yeah, it's hard. Like this week we have some crazy forecasts coming out. So I'm gonna definitely try to do, it's gonna be some crazy Maliko runs, like crazy win and crazy swell. So it's definitely, when those come around, you try to make time and go, but...
You know, sometimes it's hard. see the downwind chat going off every day. Oh, meet at 1230. I'm like, yeah, you guys go get
Daniel Paronetto (1:48:14)
so hard.
Francesco Maffei (1:48:17)
you gotta find the balance, you know, I really tried last last summer. I was just trying to, you know, get everybody's boards ready in time so they had time to use the boards before the races is not like, here's the day before the race. Use your board, β which I didn't really put time into myself. That's the goal for this year is I'm going to try Save a little time for me, so.
Daniel Paronetto (1:48:19)
Mm.
Francesco Maffei (1:48:43)
Anybody out there is waiting on a custom it's getting done just I'm not gonna lose sleep over it
Daniel Paronetto (1:48:50)
Yeah, look, think, I mean, you've reached the point now, man, that I think it's, you know, it's hard for us to let go and not keep pushing the business side of things. And I had a small business back in the day and like, yep, you just say yes to everything. But there's a time in your life, man, that, β you just have to look after yourself, after your health and mentally as well, just to be able to get out of the water. You'll come back and you'll work better, you know, doing 18 hour days. you're only a
effective for that much of it. And then the rest, you're just waffling around. That's what I found myself doing. And then if I go out and come back, I'm so much clearer in what I need to do and you just get it done. do that because I want to see you get good on the parawing. So then you can like revolutionize the boards again, because what you've did to the SUP world was, yeah, it was just incredible, man. Like I have a lot of people here β that got the Mako and they're like, holy shit, like what a.
Francesco Maffei (1:49:18)
Ha
Yeah.
fresh.
Hahaha.
That's the plan.
Daniel Paronetto (1:49:47)
What a board. So can't wait to see what you're going to be doing in the future,
Francesco Maffei (1:49:49)
Yeah, that was, β
Thank you. Yeah, that was very nice. That was really opening up the doors to broad spectrum of people. And one thing is you get the positive feedback from the people you ride with. And then when you get it from everybody, you're like, oh, that feels good. means I wasn't just wasting time trying to get this thing figured
Daniel Paronetto (1:50:14)
β That's awesome
I assume there's no better feeling that senior board out there Performing so well in the races, you know, like so many people that did well had had, you know your boards under their feet So keep doing what you're doing man I'm going to give you as much feedback as I can with regards to these pair winging boards as well I'm super excited to see what happens with them. So let's keep talking and we'll
Francesco Maffei (1:50:30)
I
Daniel Paronetto (1:50:40)
share as much as we can of this journey β as we keep going through it.
Francesco Maffei (1:50:40)
Holy
Sounds like a plan.
Daniel Paronetto (1:50:45)
All right, Frankie, I'm gonna let you go, man. This is two hours in. Thank you so much for your time and your patience. And β I'll let you know when this one's out.
Francesco Maffei (1:50:49)
Totally.
Thank you so much. was a pleasure and talk soon.
Daniel Paronetto (1:50:58)
Awesome, Frankie. Catch you, bro.
Francesco Maffei (1:50:59)
Good job.