Daniel Paronetto (00:00)
Today we have Ken Atgate, Ewan Jaspen, and Cynthia Brown. What do you still feel is missing in power winging? Funny you should ask, because I have been developing a product. I think adjustable like bar length. I want to share some clips that you guys sent through seeing a of the kids kind of take their free sell thing. think we lost Kenny as well. we lost Kenny. He doesn't like free sell. Which there's so much.
between coming up that way, freaking gnarly. can see he just grabs at it. Was it the trash bag tack? This one. This one. And I got yarded. What's the one skill that every rider should master? Learning to switch your feet and riding in the opposite stance. mine. That's mine. I totally agree. All right, rapid fire. Short lines or long lines? What's the most innovative product? Harness line, yes or no. What's the worst habit that you see out there? What's the ultimate parrowing
Set up.
Daniel Paronetto (01:07)
Hey, lab rat fan, I have a question for you based on you listening to this podcast. You are either learning how to parowing, you're thinking about getting into the sport, or you are already parowinging and interested in improving your skills and knowledge. So if that's you, I want to invite you to the lab rat Academy, an online parowinging course that will give you the right foundation to progress your parowinging into new heights.
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I want to help you learn how to pair a wing in less than 30 days. And if you are already pair winging, I want to help you get the right foundation to continue to progress faster. So if you join now, you will also get access to weekly video calls with myself to discuss your progression and make sure that you are on the right track. So if any of this sounds good to you, I want to offer everyone who is listening to the podcast.
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Daniel Paronetto (02:52)
Welcome to the lab rat foil a podcast. name is Dan and today we have our end of year special with Ken at gate, you and Jasmine and Cynthia Brown. Welcome everyone. And thank you for joining the end of year powering banter.
Ken Adgate (03:10)
Nice to be here.
Cynthia Brown (03:10)
Aloha.
Daniel Paronetto (03:12)
a little bit more excitement. Jesus. What time is it? There we go. Okay. We're on now. What time is it over there? Ken, you seem very tired. Three o'clock. Come on. Three o'clock. right. What we're going to do today is we have a different format. β we wanted to put together something that kind of encapsulates 2025. β the good, the bad, and the ugly of what we saw this year.
Ewan (03:13)
Let's have some bands!
Cynthia Brown (03:14)
Aloha!
Ken Adgate (03:15)
Camp, see ya, hola.
three o'clock. No. Just got off work.
Daniel Paronetto (03:40)
So I have a few questions that we're just going to go around the table. We're going to all answer them. β we're going to give our input. There will be discussion. There will be some debates. and then at the end, we're going to go through a rapid fire, β questionnaire. there's like, I don't know, eight or 10 questions for you guys that I just won one word answers. There will be plenty of debate prior to them. So we'll have some conclusions by the end of it. β and then at the end of the show, we're going to just put together our ultimate power wing setup.
as a group, and again, that might spark some debates, but that's the whole point of it. β we'll see what's working for each of us and what we experienced this year. Cause it was a mega, mega year for parawinging. β anything that you guys want to say before the show begins and he launches you and you just launched your hatch. It went live what a week ago now.
Ewan (04:29)
Yeah, yeah, last
week. So stoked with that. It's going well. We had really good reception online and had some good reviews and getting people out there. And it was, I think, a product we much needed and pretty stoked as where it's at and stoked to work on the next one too.
Daniel Paronetto (04:32)
How's that going?
Nice. think we all wrote it at in hood at some point. I know I wrote it a few times and yeah, it was, it was performing really well. I wrote a four. No, I wrote the three, five, the three, five, and it was sick. Cool. You Simbad, you got your power packs.
Cynthia Brown (05:06)
I did, got a 2.4 and a 3 meter just three days ago, two days ago.
Daniel Paronetto (05:12)
Not used it yet.
Cynthia Brown (05:13)
No, I did. I forced, I did a forced session because we've had Kona winds straight offshore, pretty gnarly. So I went to the harbor, which is not, I, you know, I've never, I'm not a harbor rat. Super offshore, like five to 30 mile an hour winds, flat water. And the biggest I have is a three. went out on my normal setup and I was pretty impressed with how I could pump up onto foil, the power, the low end
was amazing and then I posted a little clip on my story not on my feet but the stability of the wing is insane it's just like rock-solid little power pack I mean I'm pretty stoked on it
Ken Adgate (05:51)
Stability of the waves and sages just like you lock solid.
Cynthia Brown (05:57)
The line lengths, they, Ozone addressed everything we complained about, about the lines tangling and the line lengths and the bar length and the PowerPak has all that. But it's still not a pocket rocket because it's a lower aspect wing. It's really made for shorter upwind runs, not like your mega eight mile upwinder. But for riding waves and downwinding, it's going to be epic.
Daniel Paronetto (05:58)
Nice.
Ken Adgate (06:01)
you
you
Daniel Paronetto (06:22)
Awesome. think Ken and I were just about to get ours as well. we're definitely going to get, β get some thoughts out there when we ride them. β Ken, any news from you bro that you want to share?
Ken Adgate (06:34)
I got a couple things coming up but right now I'm just excited to try all this new gear. Got some stuff Slingshot is sending for me to try and then the new F4 stuff that'll be fun to try in Maui. But yeah, a lot of new things for 2026 that'll be fun.
Daniel Paronetto (06:54)
stuff man. Well, we'll get you back on to talk about them. All right. Let's get cracking with these questions guys. β what we'll do is I'll psycho through all of you. So we'll take turns on who starts to answer each question. So first question is
How did your powering riding change throughout 2025? And this could be, you know, anything from gear, boards, your style of riding. How did it change from the start of the year to what you're doing now? β Let's start with Ken, because I could see you right in front of me, Ken. How did your riding change from the start of the year,
Ken Adgate (07:27)
Okay.
β I would say I went to a smaller board. β Mike came out with a skinny mast. β I've been going shorter and shorter mast length. It was really sold on the 86 for a long time and then ended up going to an 80. Now we have an 83 skinny, so that's been a nice change. β Just learning the efficiency of the foil and what's possible with the new stuff that's coming out and what they're working on. It's pretty shocking how much you could
Daniel Paronetto (07:42)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Adgate (07:59)
like change or see the different changes in the foil and how efficient they are and then trying to make a perfect package foil is going to be going to be a lot of fun for this year coming up for the foil designers because β there's a lot of stuff changing and the riding style is getting better, a lot more surf style stuff so β I think it's just going to keep pushing the sport.
Daniel Paronetto (08:21)
Yeah, that's pretty big for Mike because his stuff is always was always really like race kind of oriented. So now you're saying he's going like lower aspect on his front wings and what what kind of aspect ratio are we talking about here?
Ken Adgate (08:33)
as far as Mike stuff? Mike is, well, we're working on one, but right now β he just changed the mass, which helped a lot as far as the efficiency through the water. And then it frees up the roll, which Mike's is a little bit more locked in. So it's fun to try to get ideas of the next β style of foil that we want to design and try to create. But he hasn't changed anything really much. It's just that the mass has made a pretty big difference.
Daniel Paronetto (08:35)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, Mass has been all the rave right now with the F4 stuff as well. β Do you, did you change much what you're like when you go out with the style of riding that you're doing? Are you still doing more laps versus anything else?
Ken Adgate (09:17)
I would say I'm trying to incorporate more like prone style so putting it away a lot more. β Maui has been amazing so staying with Sinbad has been awesome. And then Hood River is kind of open to my eyes as far as how fun it could be to ride with nothing in your hands and then when you go back winging you actually want to just get rid of it because it's kind of in the way all the time so that was a big eye-opener too.
Daniel Paronetto (09:41)
sick. Let's move on. And look, if you, if you guys have any, have any questions to whoever is answering the question as well, feel free to just cut in. I love when people like talk over each other. It's kind of funny. β all right, let's move on. Sinbad, what did you change throughout the year in your style of riding
Cynthia Brown (09:52)
you
Well, first off, my bank account got a lot smaller. I had to change out. I had two foil brands, as you probably know, one that had a high end and speed and another one that I needed when I first started with sub foiling before prone down when they, mean, before parrowing and down when they, I needed a foil with low end. So I invested in that package, but then I was β depressed that that the low end, didn't get that.
high speed so it was this big compromise so I went back to riding my mic slabs which had
Daniel Paronetto (10:32)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Brown (10:38)
more high end but to get the low end I had to ride a bigger foil so I was on an 825 and then my friends were like ripping wiping out and ripping past me riding like sub 700 foils so I demoed the f4 orca 685 and it was just I went home and started photographing gear and listing it for sale and paid full retail and
Daniel Paronetto (11:01)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Adgate (11:02)
you
Daniel Paronetto (11:06)
Nice.
Cynthia Brown (11:08)
bought myself an F4 setup.
β Also my board, mean my KT Super K was amazing, but I kind of outgrew it and wanted something smaller and my next-door neighbor happens to be Frank from Frank Foil Boards and he was working on a parowing shape and he didn't know, you know how to demo it out because he wasn't a parowinger so he gave it to me and I wrote it and I noticed immediately, I mean his shape was off, we had to fix some things, but his construction I noticed
Ken Adgate (11:15)
Thanks for watching!
you
you
Cynthia Brown (11:42)
something I'd never experienced in any other board was this like immediate connection to the foil when I pumped and turned it just like this solid connection so of course I had to have one of those boards and more bank account drainage and then then of course now the power pack so now I got a new pair of wing to play with but I mean my style is the same but I think
Daniel Paronetto (11:49)
Mmm.
Ken Adgate (11:51)
It's like a solid connection, so, of course I know.
Cynthia Brown (12:10)
it's going to get better because now I actually have a foil that I can pump and accelerate and go forward and and carve.
Ken Adgate (12:11)
I'm gonna get back to the room because now I actually have a full body. I'm sorry.
Cynthia Brown (12:17)
and like drop down to the surface and think my runs over like a Maliko run and think oh no I gotta pull out the parowing and get it back up but but with my setup now with this ultra light board and this incredible foil I had the board on the surface water was over the nose and I just was like took my 63 year old legs and I started pumping and I was blowing away the whole thing came up and I kept going I never pulled the parowing out so
Please don't go mad.
Daniel Paronetto (12:48)
That's sick. Are
you right, as you said, the Orca, is that their high aspect foil in their line?
Cynthia Brown (12:53)
It's
right now it's there it is but they're working on even higher this the orca is i think it's 12 is it kenny i think it's 12 to 1
Ken Adgate (13:04)
Yeah, think so. or 13, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (13:07)
Nice. And then they have a lower aspect, something else.
Cynthia Brown (13:07)
yeah and it's but what's shocking about it
well they they're releasing a surf foil which i've ridden which β they're coming out in all sizes and that's insane but they are coming out with i mean this foil was developed the orca 685 was developed for the downwind races here in maui the sup foiling so it's got unbelievable low end but
Daniel Paronetto (13:30)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Brown (13:34)
Unlike the other foils I have on the believable low end, it has this like unbelievable high end where it just like you pump it and the thing accelerates and it keeps going. And you would think at that aspect ratio wouldn't turn, but it's incredibly fun in the surf. we're all, mean, like Dave Kalama is riding it in the surf. all like surfing it. It's mind blowing. It's so fun.
Daniel Paronetto (13:54)
Mm-hmm.
I think they were here. was, β right. Okay. I was trying to hit them up to see if I could try one of those things because everybody's talking about them right now and everybody's going crazy about their foils and you, mean, writing Mike's lab for you to like a foil says a lot.
Cynthia Brown (13:59)
The designers in San Francisco.
Ken Adgate (13:58)
Designers in San Francisco.
Cynthia Brown (14:15)
Yeah,
they were pretty shocked. when I ordered, they were just like, really? Sinbad's buying one? Like, yeah, they were pretty shocked. So.
Daniel Paronetto (14:27)
awesome. β I need to try one those.
Cynthia Brown (14:28)
I mean, I love Mike's foils. It's
just they couldn't do what I needed. I need a handicap, I guess, going downwind. I want to go fast and I want to go slow. β
Daniel Paronetto (14:38)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Brown (14:41)
I didn't have the low end like on a Microsoft 700. I had the speed, but I didn't have the low end. I with somebody parawinging, so I was sick of being slow on an 825. He was on the Orca and he thought he was going to blow past me and he didn't because I went to the Microsoft 700. But the minute I slowed down and I needed to pump myself higher or save myself, I just bam down to Davy Jones' locker. It would drop me every time.
Daniel Paronetto (15:08)
Hmm.
Look, I think it's interesting to think about like the foils and it's funny, like if you're going to a more high aspect foil, faster foil and what other people are doing, like I'm trying, well, I want to get to you and before I talk about myself, β you and you go before I start yapping about that.
Ewan (15:26)
Alright, alright. β
Ken Adgate (15:28)
Hahaha
Ewan (15:30)
how's my writing changed? β well, I mean, 2025 was pretty much the year of para-winging becoming a sport, I feel anyway, like properly past like, towards the end of last year, I feel like it was becoming there, but it was still, you know, only one or two brands had something that was usable. And it was still a little bit of a novelty and people didn't really know where it was going.
And now it's like really established. So I feel like for me, it was the same, like the start of the year, more towards the end of last year, I was getting into down winding with it, just using it as a tool to get up. I think I actually, one of my first proper downwinders was on your set up in Melbourne on your BRM. β Yeah. So we had some good ones in the Bay and in the ocean as well, some crazy ones. β And then I had a elbow injuries that
Daniel Paronetto (16:15)
Yeah. yeah, that's right. Yeah. We had a few good ones here.
Mm.
Ewan (16:25)
Well, I had then as well, that was why I was going downwind and then couldn't ride for a little bit and then spent the whole majority spring summer kind of developing the hatch and where I wanted to being in Hood River, I wanted to use it to, you know, stop getting in the cars and vans to go shuttling constantly. Obviously still love going for a shuttle run downwind with friends a little bit, but
Daniel Paronetto (16:50)
Hmm.
Ewan (16:55)
you with the right people. But just, yeah, the time on the water you get is so much more when you're parrowing upwind. Like, even at, I mean, we have the current here, so it helps, but we have a short shuttle here and I can still beat the guys leaving the car park. I ride upwind and I'm at the start before they're even paddling out. So it kinda...
Daniel Paronetto (16:57)
with the right people, it's okay.
Cynthia Brown (17:06)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (17:14)
Hmm.
Ewan (17:20)
That's what changed my writing. So I was getting so many more runs in a day, so much more time on the water. And yeah, then I think we started messing around actually, Kenny and Johnny were inspiring me with some writing, like doing some tacks and jibes and stuff with the parrowing and learning all that stuff. And then progressed to writing some footstraps and doing some slides and airs and all that kind of stuff.
Daniel Paronetto (17:21)
Mm-mm.
Yep.
Ken Adgate (17:42)
and and they put their strides in foot straps and doing some slides and ears and
Daniel Paronetto (17:47)
Mmm.
Ewan (17:47)
Yeah, just exploring what it's all got basically and trying to figure out where the sport can go
Ken Adgate (17:48)
all that kind of stuff and yeah just exploring what is on the basically and trying to...
Ewan (17:52)
and it keeps kind of surprising me, honestly.
Daniel Paronetto (17:58)
Did you change much like the gear that you're riding foil wise? Are you still on similar stuff or in board size?
Ewan (18:02)
β I'm on similar stuff. We're, we're also, we're releasing
Ken Adgate (18:05)
you
Ewan (18:06)
two new foils and a whole new foil system and two new foils, β at the start of next year. So I've been, writing a lot of those prototypes out of the air and actually just got in from trying one of the new small ones, kite foiling, β high aspect 544. So that was fun. β but they've been throughout the year, just progressing with feedback and.
Daniel Paronetto (18:12)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Adgate (18:12)
next year.
Ewan (18:31)
new angles and tails and systems and profiles and really honing that in. And that's, mean, really enhanced my riding as well, just being able to have the foil allow you to ride better and conserve energy and push harder and all that kind of stuff, which is what everyone wants, I guess. If the foil feels easier and more stable, then you can ride harder because it just feels more confident, inspiring and...
Ken Adgate (18:54)
This foil feels easier and more stable than you can ride on it.
Ewan (19:00)
And yeah, I guess I keep changing between I used to downwind on a 95 and then I went to an 85. Yeah. And then I went to 75 for a while. Yeah. And then I rode 75, probably most half of this first year and then went back to 85. Just.
Daniel Paronetto (19:03)
What math size do you write, Ewan?
Ken Adgate (19:04)
you
Cynthia Brown (19:10)
Whoa. β
Daniel Paronetto (19:11)
95.
this massive change.
Cynthia Brown (19:18)
Huh?
Ewan (19:26)
And I think somewhere 85, 83, like Kenny was saying, I think is like β a pretty spot on length. Just a mix of efficiency, able to turn hard on a good angle and all that. yeah. But I think the big piece of gear that we've come out with that's helped and felt a lot, same as what Sinbad was saying about construction and stuff was the...
Ken Adgate (19:28)
some way.
Cynthia Brown (19:43)
you
Daniel Paronetto (19:46)
Yeah, I think I have.
Ewan (19:55)
hollow boards that we've been bringing out at the moment. Most of ours are in saps at the moment still but the small one is a great power wing board but the hollow construction is crazy. You can't believe how light it is till you pick it up and even if you're prepared you still pick it up. If I pick it up too hard it's crazy.
Daniel Paronetto (19:59)
Mm-hmm.
It's like,
It's gonna
blow away in the wind.
I tried an apple tree hollow core and it was pretty good at marimbula and that was sick. That's a good board.
Ewan (20:27)
Yeah, nice. Hey, is there like a little
noise going on? Or is that just me?
Daniel Paronetto (20:34)
There's a little static. Is that what you mean? Like a little static?
Ken Adgate (20:35)
I hear it too.
Ewan (20:35)
Yeah, like quite a loud,
yeah, it's quite a loud static for me.
Cynthia Brown (20:41)
It could be my I could turn my fan it might be my fan Let me turn my fan off
Daniel Paronetto (20:43)
I can't hear it too much.
yeah, maybe turn the fan off, Sinbad.
Cynthia Brown (20:52)
You know, because it's warm here. It's Hawaii. It's not, β you know, Oregon winter. Did it change? Did the noise stop?
Ken Adgate (20:56)
Huh?
Daniel Paronetto (20:59)
I got a hoodie on and it's summer.
β
Ewan (21:06)
Mmm, it's a little better, yeah. I don't know if it was the fan or not, but sounds better now. It was quite loud. Yeah.
Ken Adgate (21:07)
It's getting better.
Daniel Paronetto (21:08)
Yeah.
Ken Adgate (21:13)
It almost sounded like it was raining.
Cynthia Brown (21:14)
It's pro...
It's the wind outside. Let me close my door. I'm the noisy one. There. β
Ewan (21:21)
It was just getting super loud while I was talking and I was wondering if you guys could even hear me.
Daniel Paronetto (21:27)
I can take that out and post. have a good little thing on this app that kind of removes all that noise. yeah.
Ewan (21:27)
Cool. All right, sounds good now, anyway.
Cynthia Brown (21:32)
was the wind. That was the
Maui breeze.
Daniel Paronetto (21:36)
my god.
Ken Adgate (21:36)
Nice.
Cynthia Brown (21:37)
So speaking of
Daniel Paronetto (21:37)
I'm jealous.
Cynthia Brown (21:38)
lightness, my board that Frank built me, he did it as a test to see how light he could get it. And I mean, I didn't ask for this, but he's like, want it. So he basically sanded off all the paint. It's not bright and pretty like I'd like, but it's, he got it down to 6.6 pounds. It's crazy. And then that F4 foil with that 11 mil mast is so light that when we do runs from Hukipa, walking down that path and it's blowing.
Ewan (21:51)
Heh
Daniel Paronetto (22:02)
Mm.
Cynthia Brown (22:07)
35 40 miles an hour like I had to double clutch my board I'm so afraid it's gonna blow out of my hands but I'm not complaining
Daniel Paronetto (22:16)
Jeez, that's a light setup.
Are you gonna do the holo-core for smaller boards, Yuin?
Ewan (22:19)
Yeah, we've got,
think right now the 68 Chimeras, the smallest one that we've got, which is quite a good power wing β size anyway. β And that's got inserts in it, so it's a little heavier than the SAP, just because built-in inserts and all that. β
Daniel Paronetto (22:28)
That's a good one.
Ken Adgate (22:32)
So it's a little heavy on the side.
What's the dimensions?
Cynthia Brown (22:38)
How much does it weigh?
Ewan (22:39)
the 90 litre SUP is like six pounds, I think. β maybe a little more, don't quote me on it, but it's, it's crazy light. And then the wing board or, β parrowing, whatever crossover board is a little heavier. I think that's more like eight pounds or eight, eight and half, cause it's got inserts and a little more reinforcement. β yeah. And then
Cynthia Brown (22:46)
Whoa!
Daniel Paronetto (23:04)
Hmm.
Ewan (23:06)
Dimensions on the it's 6.68 liters. It's about 20 wide I think
Ken Adgate (23:13)
Okay.
Daniel Paronetto (23:14)
Yeah, interesting. we'll talk about boards because I do have a question, um, about boards later on. And it was a big one for me this year. I think it was more around foil setup that changed. I was on an 80 mass for pretty much the whole time since I started parawinging. And now I moved to an 85 and I, was, it's just incredible. We had a big day. You and you would know this, um, at point danger yesterday.
Ken Adgate (23:15)
Nice.
Daniel Paronetto (23:41)
It was like six to eight foot swell and it was just like 30 knots. So we were just getting the biggest bombs of our lives and that 80 mast, 85 mast with the new surf wing from code that, β a 10 X that was the incredible. It was incorrect. think for me, the biggest thing was going from a higher aspect foil to those surf foils and I'm loving them on the pair wing. It's a 8.5 aspect ratio. one I'm writing now.
Ken Adgate (23:42)
Thanks
So.
Daniel Paronetto (24:10)
And because I'm in a Bay, it's totally fine to go out and do a downwind or on in the ocean. wouldn't work that well, but God here in the Bay, that's all I want to be riding. haven't taken out, like I haven't swapped it out for anything else since I put it on to the mass. It's just, it's there and it's just pull it out in any condition here in the Bay. β so I think that's going to be a little bit of a trend, just going to surf your foils. and.
Conditions allow, you you'll be ripping so much more on them. I'm loving it.
Ewan (24:41)
Yeah, I agree.
think, I mean, it's pretty clear. A lot of people are going to that like eight to nine aspect ratio. I mean, our mid aspect is eight and a half, 800 that I've been writing a lot, which is, guess, pretty similar to that code. And that's just, once I put that on and had one or two good runs on it, I was just like, I don't want to, don't want to write anything else.
Daniel Paronetto (24:53)
Mm.
Cynthia Brown (25:04)
But I think it's also specific to where you are. Yeah, like Hood River, you can ride that, but Malico, it's...
Daniel Paronetto (25:05)
I wish I had it for hood.
Ewan (25:09)
Yeah, no, for like an ocean downwind,
Daniel Paronetto (25:09)
100%.
Ewan (25:12)
yeah, it doesn't really work. But in waves and Bay Chop and Hood River Chop, it's pretty prime.
Daniel Paronetto (25:12)
Mm-mm.
Cynthia Brown (25:15)
Zip it.
Daniel Paronetto (25:23)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I felt that even riding the pair wing, like going up wind, I'm so much faster on that. β I can catch a lot more speed because the profile is thinner. The cord is bigger, but the profile is thinner. So you just blast and the 85 mass giving me that little extra edge to go faster on it when I'm really, you know, β going fast. So I'm, just loving that setup now. And then I'm just tweaking tails depending on conditions, but I'm just going out on the a 10 pretty much all the time.
Ken Adgate (25:55)
Have you had a chance to try the 700 yet?
Daniel Paronetto (25:56)
Cool.
I tried the 700, um, at Mirimbula. I tried it on the kite. So it's a little bit different, the 700. So they scaled down from eight 10, they go to, uh, a seven 40, which is awesome. And then the 700 it's a little bit different. It's more of a tow foil. Um, yeah. So they tweaked it a little bit. So it's not, it doesn't feel the same, but it's still super fast. Um, but the thing with those foils is really.
Ken Adgate (26:16)
yourself.
Daniel Paronetto (26:28)
When you're going down the face and I experienced this yesterday, β cause there were just some bombs coming through. You go down the face and you never feel like you're exploding on the lift. And with the 85 mass, I was just cruising because it was choppy. was 30 knots. So it was just everywhere. β and I felt in control the whole time and I was just like, my God, this is very easy to ride. It just feels like you're in like marshmallow, you know, like that's super locked in fuel.
Ken Adgate (26:58)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (26:58)
And very
predictable and it doesn't have a top end. you never, could never reach the top end of it. And I, I saw, β the GPS and the data, β top speed yesterday was 42 Ks coming down a face. that's probably the fastest I've ever gone going down a wave. And it was like, I didn't feel like I was going to explode on the eight 10 and it was keeping up with the big one. So it was pretty impressed. I was on the one 20 tail.
And they have a smaller tail, a 110, which would have been good. But as long as I got the drop and I got that speed, I was able to keep up. So it was a sick setup. That was awesome.
Ken Adgate (27:36)
Nice.
Nice.
Daniel Paronetto (27:40)
Let's move on a little because I want to share some clips that you guys sent through. β we all have our moments or things that we're thinking about doing, and then we go online and we're like, wow. There it is right there. So I asked all of you to send me a clip of what moment in 2025 made you stop and think, all right, shit, parawinging has just leveled up here. β and it could have been anything, anything from, you know, a skill or a trick or a product or whatever. So.
We'll start with you and I'll share my screen here so you and you can talk about what you're thinking β when you saw the clip that you sent through.
Ewan (28:19)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (28:19)
It's come up? All right.
Cynthia Brown (28:20)
It looks like Malo.
Ewan (28:23)
So yeah, guess this was...not this exact...obviously this clip is like an example, but I think this was seeing a lot of the kids and some of the kids in Hood River as well this year kind of take their freestyle thing, showing the potential. I really like this, like these front rolls, front flips, whatever you call them, they do where they're fully cartwheeling over the power wing. I think it just looks really sick, like really dynamic and...
Daniel Paronetto (28:49)
Mm.
Ewan (28:53)
shows potential for where that could go in the future. I think the power wings will go and change a lot to be free sale specific. β I think you probably need something pretty different for this than what you would need for what I want to usually do, which is ride waves.
Daniel Paronetto (29:16)
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what you think has to be different on that parawing. That's an interesting thing to touch on. Like if you were to design a freestyle parrowing.
Ewan (29:20)
I mean, you're going to need some pretty like
rapid steering, I think. β But kind of like freestyle kites, like you want them to be quick when you need them to be quick, but you also don't want them to be twitchy, like β when you're trying to hold it in one spot. And I think you can see this pair of wings kind of collapsing a bunch at different times. And I think that's obviously a collapse is going to make it slow through the air and stall and
Daniel Paronetto (29:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Ewan (29:50)
not as efficient so β maybe like more use of battens and rods and stuff in the profile will, I mean like if you're doing this you're probably not trying to collapse it all that much so you could definitely work on the rigidity of the power wing to kind of make it a more suitable tool I think for free sell.
Daniel Paronetto (30:00)
Yeah, right.
Mmm.
What about the aspect ratio? you think something lower aspect would be a little bit more prone to like boosting and stuff?
Ewan (30:18)
I can't imagine a higher aspect parowing is going to be great for that. β So probably lower aspect, probably a little more arc for the stability as well. β And the steering. Yeah, and like more wingtip and stuff as well. This one, I can't say that parowing looks great, but I'd be interested to see him riding someone else's parowing doing that stuff. I think we lost Kenny as well.
Daniel Paronetto (30:23)
Mm-hmm.
On the leading edge.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, we did. He'll come back on. β I like this clip cause he doesn't like free side just boycotted the conversation. He's like, dropping off the podcast. Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (30:49)
You are scanning here.
Ewan (30:50)
Yeah, he doesn't like free
sell. He's out.
Cynthia Brown (30:55)
He doesn't like straps.
He doesn't like straps. β
Ewan (31:00)
Yeah, that's true.
Daniel Paronetto (31:05)
But this clip, mean, β Marlo's just a freak because it's so clean. Like, look at that front flip. Like, everything is so clean and he lands. I think that my gripe with winging is always when you land and you just like, you know, like you don't keep going and he's landing, he's powered, he's popping straight back on foil. So I definitely like what he's doing there.
Ewan (31:08)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (31:22)
I can't hear you, Daniel. It's weird.
Ewan (31:24)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (31:29)
We were just saying Ken that you boycotted the whole freestyle section of the podcast. You're like, nah, not having any of it.
Ken Adgate (31:26)
are.
Ewan (31:26)
There he is.
Ken Adgate (31:29)
Yeah, sorry.
Cynthia Brown (31:38)
I can't hear Daniel. He's just like a
Ken Adgate (31:38)
He has something in his hands.
Cynthia Brown (31:43)
robot.
Daniel Paronetto (31:46)
no, it's probably Maui connection. I'll come back soon.
Cynthia Brown (31:49)
no, now I got
you. Now I hear you.
Daniel Paronetto (31:52)
Well, let's go to your clip, Simbad, because it's a similar vibe to what Ewan had here.
Let me know when you can see that simbed.
Cynthia Brown (32:06)
Okay, I can see it.
Daniel Paronetto (32:11)
Alright, I'll play the clip and you can talk over it.
Cynthia Brown (32:14)
Okay, well, I was actually there on the water when he was doing this and I was, when he did that board off, that just blew my minds. Cause I mean, we've all, saw Kyla, I've been with Kyla and he's doing back flips and handle passes and all that stuff. And with the board off, I'd never seen anyone do. β And it just like.
my passion used to be big air kiting and so when I saw that with this tiny like micro kite it just just made me think like the parrowing is so darn cool it's a little micro kite
Daniel Paronetto (32:45)
Mm.
It totally
is. He's on a four, two here. So do you remember how strong the wind was this day?
Cynthia Brown (32:57)
he, yeah, he was windy.
He was lit. But he's a young, strong kid. Like, he was lit.
Daniel Paronetto (33:01)
my god.
He would have been so lit on that for two. And the other thing is I interviewed him not too long after I came back from hood and he said that he probably had like two or three sessions on the thing and he was doing all that.
Cynthia Brown (33:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's a pretty natural transition from a hand wing. But the thing is, I want it to be like a kite where I could spin under it and the lines are going to spin because for me, like the hand wing, always
Ewan (33:27)
Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (33:35)
like just doing the frontside 360 which took me forever to learn and I never was great at it but I could do it but that whole like swinging the wing through the wind and with the para wing it's even gnarlier because to do that move you got to add a kite loop into it β and I just wish it were more like a kite and I could cheat and the lines would spin
Daniel Paronetto (33:46)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Adgate (34:02)
I'm excited for these guys to start getting into waves and like in the air and then either deploy or retracting it or just letting it go and then air into a section and then and then prone out. β dude, that's gonna be so sick. Or even better, you carry an extra one or you carry an extra one in your pouch. You you jump eject, you you fly or air into a section, get down. And then as you right after ride the wave, you pull it out of your pouch, your second one, ride it to the other one and then
Daniel Paronetto (34:12)
Gah.
Ken Adgate (34:33)
and just do circles like that.
Daniel Paronetto (34:33)
β wow.
Cynthia Brown (34:36)
be epic at the hatchery. The hatchery there's gonna be parowings discarded all over the place. Landlines.
Daniel Paronetto (34:36)
Give these kids more things to do.
Ewan (34:37)
Yeah.
Ken Adgate (34:37)
Oh
dude, this is going to be so fun. They'll come up. They'll be doing some crazy stuff this year. Next year.
Ewan (34:45)
Yeah, dodging power wings instead of seaweed.
Daniel Paronetto (34:52)
Yeah, it was pretty impressive to see, everything that happened in hood really. β and I didn't get a chance to actually meet cash there, but yeah, Oscar was frothing on it as well. And it's cool to see all these guys coming from down-winding. They, they're all kind of now that the races are done. Everyone is parawinging. see Kai Thompson, Jared Snow, like all the boys, know, James Casey, everyone, Josh Koo, everyone is parawinging now.
Ken Adgate (35:22)
Yeah, once they they feel that smaller board and that smaller foil, I don't see them going back to paddling a lot if the conditions are right. It just doesn't make any sense.
Daniel Paronetto (35:25)
Mm.
Cynthia Brown (35:31)
I
saw Kai Thompson and Kane come in one day and I was like, and they had tiny like 30 liter boards and I was like, did you guys like share a pair of wing or something? Cause they had, they didn't have anything and they said, no, they just.
Daniel Paronetto (35:33)
But how?
Cynthia Brown (35:46)
They just prone in at O'Keefa and did a full eight mile send, which is like on Oahu that's possible because there's surf breaks all along that you could chip in if you go down. they went and did it with no, like once you're down, you're down. And they were loving it.
Daniel Paronetto (36:03)
Yeah.
Those guys don't come down. They're so confident in their skill. And that's the thing, right? That's the thing that para winging allows you to do mere mortals like me. I can have that same experience if I want to on a para wing. And it's not that hard to be honest. Like you can get to a 40, 50, even 60 liter board is really small. And you can have that experience of going downwind for miles on a surf setup. That's why I think it's so great.
Cynthia Brown (36:33)
does downwind too. I've seen him like in one of the practice races. Cash can paddle up and downwind like, and he doesn't, yeah, no, he can do it all. I was in a race with him once and I was like, my God, he's paddling. Yeah, he can do it all.
Daniel Paronetto (36:36)
Go ahead, Cynthia.
yeah, yeah,
Ken, you said something that kind of was interesting. You said that once these downwind guys experienced the small board, they won't go back. Do you think there's a little resistance in that change because it is something that, you know, they're dominating at right now and they're going into something new.
Ken Adgate (37:00)
for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah. And then their ego probably is like they got so good at it and they're so far ahead of anybody that's going to get into the sport that you almost feel like all that work you put into, you don't want to give it up and you don't want to get rusty if the conditions suit that particular β style of riding. But if the conditions are solid wind and swell and I don't understand why you wouldn't ever like
you should pair wing every single time. It doesn't make any sense to do a downwind run.
Cynthia Brown (37:38)
Well, I
could, I mean, because I live it here with these people that are obsessed with it. I mean, they really are like, Kane can do it all, but he's still.
Daniel Paronetto (37:40)
yet. I think now there's
Cynthia Brown (37:50)
And he loves the parowing, but he still like chooses the paddle to sit in these days like that are really shitty conditions. If they're on the WhatsApp chat, like where are we meeting and they're paddling. I don't think it's just about ego and then they got there. think they are pushing the sport to such a level, like with smaller, faster, faster foils that they're into like the rush of getting from A to B. They're not into the pleasure of the surf that we are into with the parowing.
So β I don't see them giving up supping just to paroling because they're really into the rush. β I made it to be an hour before I used to make it.
Daniel Paronetto (38:32)
Mm-hmm.
I get that. And there is something to be said about, β getting into that flow state in a 20 kilometer run or whatever. It is different. You get into a different state and you do get a lot of dopamine from connecting bumps and being really efficient and you know, top speed and everything. And yeah, I can see how, that's attractive too.
All right, let's move on to Ken. Now Ken, we didn't quite find what we wanted for what you want to talk about, but we'll share this clip of Dimitri β in Mauritius and you can talk about what you think was impressive this year.
Ewan (39:04)
.
Ken Adgate (39:16)
Yeah, mean, I mean, getting into sets like this, mean, in iconic waves, I think this is a Mauritius This is one eye, right? Same bed you said?
Daniel Paronetto (39:23)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Brown (39:24)
Yeah, I think
so.
Ken Adgate (39:27)
Yeah, I mean to get in spots like that where I don't know how far offshore but that's the huge thing with the Parawing is it could get you in these locations where you don't have to paddle two miles out and then you could be in these epic spots like Fiji could be an amazing spot where you can where you could Parawing way out to the certain breaks and just take advantage of a perfect set over and over and over again. β I mean it's pretty epic. I mean it doesn't doesn't get much better than that.
And then what Kai did at Jaws, β I mean, it's just, it's gonna open the doors for a lot of these guys that wanna take the risk, I would say.
Daniel Paronetto (40:09)
Yeah. And I guess what we were talking about that kind of really pushes the sport is, mean, Dimitri here has it, like flagged, not even stowed, like actually stowing it in the belt and getting into a wave redeploying. think what, mean, what do we really need different accessories and different gear to be able to get that done? Because, you know, stowing it to a belt isn't necessarily the fastest way to get rid of the parrowing right now.
Ken Adgate (40:38)
I like tossing and having a second one.
Daniel Paronetto (40:42)
Yeah, not bad.
Ewan (40:43)
That does
sound like the nicest way. I was pretty surprised in Maui, just this last trip was my first time really para-winging like in waves, like we had some really solid days at lowers and stuff and uppers and ka'a and all that. it's like compared to going straight downwind on a downwind Earth, stowing is so easy. Whereas stowing on a proper wave, like when you're building up line tension and, or you know, you have to...
Cynthia Brown (41:08)
that.
Ewan (41:12)
especially if it's a right hand with wind coming from the right and you want to stow going left or going upwind or whatever it's so hard like you can kind of peel down wind and stow it but still it's like it's a lot harder stowing on a proper braking wave than β a bump where you can just stand there and take your time so I do think there's
There's still, you know, there's power wings that are stowing easier and short lines and this that, but there's still, β there's still no like really good just instant stow for a wave. I don't think which I think there's, there's obviously, there's going to be a future there till dude to, β tell Graham to get out of here.
Daniel Paronetto (41:44)
Mm-hmm.
I got people messenger.
Eto Melbourne. Who's that? it is Graham. Jesus.
Cynthia Brown (42:05)
Well,
a lot of guys here, it's not really the stow, it's the collapse on the wave because if you spend the time to start putting it away correctly, you actually lose a lot of the wave because you're concentrating on that and you're not ripping the wave. there's that.
Ewan (42:15)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (42:22)
Mm.
Cynthia Brown (42:25)
So I don't even stow. I just collapse when I ride a wave. mean, I'm at COW, like the baby waves, but there's still waves. β And I just also want to have my wing ready because if you go downwind where the meatiest part of the waves are, then it's full on reef and you screw up the deploy.
Mean it's just hazardous on you and your foil I just I don't know so I don't ever really stow on a wave But I agree with the collapse and I think this power pack that ozone has I haven't Obviously because I've only had a short session on I tried to stow to them collapse it going into the wind But I think it might be possible by the way they they've developed it. It might be easier Per se than like others to to collapse with a little with pressure
Daniel Paronetto (42:50)
Mmm.
Cynthia Brown (43:16)
like going into the window instead of going downwind.
Ewan (43:19)
Yeah, I definitely think those like rings and stuff that like cinch it up might be easier just because it's not on your hands. β Yeah, there's gotta be like some sort of rip cord that you can pull that just cinches it into your vest or something or something like that because I... same thing, like sometimes I just collapse it and don't stow it but I get so annoyed by the thing...
Daniel Paronetto (43:21)
Yeah, I like,
Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (43:27)
But they damaged the lines. We tried that.
That was fun.
Daniel Paronetto (43:39)
Mmm.
Ewan (43:45)
just blowing around, like getting the cannon. I want it to feel like I've got nothing in my hands. Like that's what I really love about it. So then I was trying as well going out the back at Kata and trying to get on it so far out so that you don't lose the wave like you were saying. But before it breaks, when it's that far out, the bumps are moving so quick that if you're on like the foil that you want to be on on the inside, it's not keeping up too well on the outside. So yeah, it's definitely a hard one.
Daniel Paronetto (43:52)
Mm.
Cynthia Brown (44:06)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (44:07)
Hmm.
Interesting.
Cynthia Brown (44:13)
Sam
Reynolds does it the best with his original pocket wing.
He takes, like you're saying, he goes way, way out. He catches it way out. He's on a tiny board. He's just that two-handled, like nobody else can ride like he can. And the way it collapses, I've ridden it, it's the only pair of wing that absolutely just collapses. Like you just, you go like that and the thing just falls out of the sky. There's none of this stroking. So he collapses wads and he shoves it in his little pouch and he rides hands-free every ride. it's pretty impressive. No, I've never seen anyone do
Ewan (44:26)
Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (44:48)
what he does.
Daniel Paronetto (44:50)
Does he redeploy it properly?
Cynthia Brown (44:52)
Yes.
Daniel Paronetto (44:55)
Nice.
Cynthia Brown (44:55)
Yeah, now he rips.
Ken Adgate (44:56)
Hey, you and β sorry, good.
One thing you got to try, I kind of unlocked it last time I call is you you pack it down out on the outside set and then as you get in the soft stuff or in the words going to start to reform, you work your way upwind and just just basically take the elevator upwind. And then when you get in that next section, you you ride your section and then and then just like prone, you pump your way out to that third section and ride it again.
Ewan (45:15)
Yeah.
Ken Adgate (45:26)
and use the soft section as elevator to get up wind. Because when you're pumping back out at Caja, you've got a trailer wind behind you. So it actually helps you pump into the outside sections. So I unlocked that last time. Obviously, if it's busy, it's going to be harder. But it was pretty cool that you could keep it deployed or it packed down a long time. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (45:29)
Mmm.
Ewan (45:34)
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And still get a lot. Yeah, I was definitely trying the same as well.
My favorite loop as well was coming through Ka'a and go down the bottom of the boneyard up to Nash Beach and then back out through the channel between the boneyard and Loewers and tack out to near uppers, stow out there and then downwind from there to Ka'a and then
Ken Adgate (46:09)
nice.
Ewan (46:14)
pump around, looking for, β waiting for a set and then pull onto a set and ride it all the way down through Ka'a, redeploy and then just do that loop. was, last few days, that was my loop.
Ken Adgate (46:22)
Nice.
Daniel Paronetto (46:22)
That's sick.
Ken Adgate (46:27)
On high tide. β
Ewan (46:27)
Or just say hi.
Cynthia Brown (46:28)
I saw what JD filmed.
Ewan (46:32)
Yeah, JD was one of those laps. Yeah, that was it. Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (46:32)
I saw JD's film of you. Yeah, I saw it. It was good. I was like, oh, he's downwinded, but wait, now he's in the way of the car. So yeah, I saw it.
Ken Adgate (46:33)
Yeah
That's sick.
Ewan (46:42)
That was the lap.
Ken Adgate (46:43)
haha
Ewan (46:43)
Yeah. β
Ken Adgate (46:45)
That was nice. Okay.
Daniel Paronetto (46:48)
pretty tough though. mean, you just described there like three pretty hard skills you need to have in order to do that. Like you need to write the parrowing, you need to be able to surf and you need to be able to go downwind to understand what you just said. So are we kind of like, do we, do we need just to get better at the thing so we can start writing? Cause it's also so spot dependent. Like it's, it's going to be different in every spot. β like you've been talking about waves.
Ewan (47:00)
Yeah.
Yeah, mean, for sure, think it's,
I mean, that's, I wouldn't say beginner level, but it's not like, I don't think it's that out of the question, especially on like a smaller day or like on a bigger foil or whatever. there's, it just gets so much easier or harder depending what gear you ride as well. You can make parawinging super easy. I've taught people, like everyone thinks it's super hard, but it's because...
Daniel Paronetto (47:23)
Hmm.
Ewan (47:37)
everyone's idea of parawinging was, I can ride the tiniest board in the tiniest foil and blah, blah, blah. And that's kind of hard. But like, if you want to teach someone on a, on a big parowing and flattish water on a big board and a big foil, it's especially for people who've kited it, it feels like it's not that hard. So I don't think any of these skills are too far off. I think people just kind of start with the idea of
Daniel Paronetto (47:58)
Hmm.
Ewan (48:05)
a sinker board and a tiny foil and then struggle a little bit. Whereas I think if you just spend more time actually doing it on easy gear then kind of stuff gets unlocked pretty quick.
Daniel Paronetto (48:16)
Yeah, I'm gonna share one clip because we're, we've got tons to cover here, but I'm gonna throw a little confetti your way there Ken. Let me know when you guys can see this.
Ewan (48:25)
Yeah
Ken Adgate (48:27)
I wish I wish it had a video of when you and and me and Johnny were like teaching each other how to do stuff it was it was a lot of fun actually and it was seen like the the tack was it the trash bag tack yeah that one
Daniel Paronetto (48:40)
This one. This one I tried
and I got yarded trying this.
Ken Adgate (48:45)
Dude,
that one can get you good if you're just, you're in the wrong position at the wrong time kind of thing.
Ewan (48:50)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (48:51)
Yeah, thanks.
I, mean, for me, this was cool because I was just like in my little pocket of no one doing parawinging here. β you and you, did you come before or after hood? came before, didn't you? It was Jan. Yeah. Yeah. So you were probably the only one that I had written with like before I went to hood, And when I got to hood.
Ewan (49:03)
To Melbourne? I was December, January, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (49:15)
And I saw this, I'm like, holy shit. Okay. This is next level. Cause all of these tricks, like it just reminded me of kite foiling and how much fun you can have on the para wing using the para wing, like you do with the kite when you kite foil. So this was a big eye opener. β and just seeing like simple tree, like the handle pass job and things like it's, they're super easy, but they're super fun and they make your riding look nice. know, you have a variety, variety of tricks that you can do.
when you're doing turns. So I think there's so much to be explored in different types of jibes, different types of tacks. Ken, we were talking about that tack where you come out of the tack with the height, like a power wing loop to get powered. Sometimes you just pass, you know, the point of, the tack and it's just easier just to continue with that loop. So I think maybe this year, this is something that I'm like, β I would love to explore this kind of style of writing. And I.
I remember texting you Ken and saying, what do I call this? Is it free ride? It's not freestyle, but it's like just free ride. And you're like, I don't know. β but this got me really excited. It was really eye opening to what could be done. And seeing Johnny ride for the first time as well was just crazy. And when you two were in the water at the same time, it was probably the best because you guys are like two little velociraptors at each other. So that was cool to watch.
Ken Adgate (50:18)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, Ewan was doing good too. He everything we were doing. He was copying. He was catching on quick. So no, he's no slouch. Back when it, hey, speaking of that trash bag tack, Ewan, you got to try it on the kite with the handle pass.
Daniel Paronetto (50:44)
Yeah, he's no slouch.
Ewan (50:45)
Well
Cynthia Brown (50:47)
waiting for you to backwind
it. Kenny I'm waiting for you to backwind the parowing.
Ewan (50:49)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (50:51)
Yeah.
Ewan (51:00)
Yeah, I've been thinking that as well.
Daniel Paronetto (51:01)
shit.
Ken Adgate (51:03)
I got, I got, I got yarded. You got to do it super underpowered and you got, and you got to make sure it doesn't loop. It will loop, but.
Ewan (51:07)
Yeah, I bet.
Yeah. Have you managed to do a good,
like, round the world yet on the power wing?
Ken Adgate (51:17)
Yeah, yeah, we were doing them up there, but β it's easier when the wind is nice and consistent, not too windy because it kind of gets blown into, but you can do it. Johnny's really good at it. Yeah. Yeah.
Ewan (51:25)
Yeah, because you have to be so quick because it's such short lines like to without
the handle pass to do yeah, it has to be light wind as well. Yeah.
Ken Adgate (51:36)
You
basically, yeah, got to back basically back fly it and then you just go at it real quick.
Ewan (51:40)
Yeah.
I should try that.
Daniel Paronetto (51:44)
I've been trying them on the Onewheel. I got a Onewheel Ken, you told me to get one I got one.
Ewan (51:48)
Yeah
Ken Adgate (51:49)
They're great practice.
Daniel Paronetto (51:50)
They are, I've been, I got the biggest burn on my leg now because of it. I don't have that wheel cap and I let my rear leg go and it just like on my ankle.
see that right there. Got the biggest burn now. So thanks for that. But it is really good to learn. when you're riding it, because you're riding it when it's like five knots or whatever, so there's no wind. That's when I'm on the one wheel. You get these ideas of what to do and how to throw the para wing around. yeah, it's definitely something worth exploring if you're comfortable on a skateboard or something like that. Getting that going on the para wing is pretty cool.
Ken Adgate (52:31)
Yeah. And
I mean, and if you wing still, you could ride it when you're fully powered up and you can practice backwinding. And it's very, very accurate is how it feels backwinding when it's powered up. You can lean into it and ride it. You can learn a lot actually.
Daniel Paronetto (52:42)
Nice. Yep.
Well, I'm just gonna show this last clip because it is something that like kind of got parawinging out in the mainstream and it is Kai at Jaws. β Which is pretty cool to see. think even though, what is, he's over here. So this is him coming out. The worst stow in the world, but he got away with it.
Ken Adgate (52:55)
You
See, like there, there I think it, well, I mean, you'd probably lose a pair of wing, but you could probably ditch it and throw it above the wave and then have your spare. On those type of days, there's no really reason to stow it. I don't think, or even pack it that way. I mean, then you don't have to worry about falling into it if you get tumbled. So you're better off ejecting it and then having a spare one if you make the wave and then you could get your way out of it. And then you can just go pick up your other one later.
Daniel Paronetto (53:34)
Mmm.
Ken Adgate (53:40)
So that would probably be safer in these conditions.
Daniel Paronetto (53:41)
I think it was impressive
Cynthia Brown (53:41)
See
the jet ski tracks?
Daniel Paronetto (53:43)
even to pull that in like that. Yeah. So he got towed into this with the jet ski, but then he stowed it, which there's so much wind coming up that way that just getting to the leading edge would have been super challenging, but that's freaking gnarly.
Cynthia Brown (53:53)
Yeah.
Well, you can see
he just, grabs at it. Like he doesn't even go up the lines. Like he, he did, it's pretty amazing. He got the thing out of the air at all.
Ken Adgate (53:58)
It's still gnarly.
Daniel Paronetto (54:04)
Mmm.
Look at that.
Ken Adgate (54:08)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (54:09)
It's still flying. Grabs the leading edge.
Cynthia Brown (54:10)
Like, then he grabs it.
Ken Adgate (54:14)
That is one nice thing about the Ozone is you could, could, you could even under full load, you could pull those A's and it'll, it'll collapse it under full load, which a lot of the brands won't. They just, they won't, they won't fully depower.
Daniel Paronetto (54:28)
The one thing that the power pack does that I saw was really interesting is he, β so they kind of separated the external A's from the middle A's. So that's something that I always used to do, just put a little electrical tape. β Tom, he gave me that tip in hood and I was just as a reference, it was easier to do that. And then they separated it. So when you pull it, like the wing tips actually flag out. So that helps you just get to the canopy pretty quick. I thought that was pretty smart.
Cynthia Brown (54:36)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, the canopy won't twirl like if you go up all that the pocket rocket has such a, you know, high aspect wingspan, so you couldn't collapse the whole leading edge. So if you didn't do everything quickly, it could grab wind and spin. Yeah. The power pack is just, it's a totally different animal. But yeah, that center line thing is, I think we'll be able to collapse it under power.
Daniel Paronetto (55:02)
Mm-hmm.
I thought it was pretty smart.
I hope so because I think that kind of style of pair of wings, short lines, low aspect, you know, and with decent upwind is an amazing choice for a wave riding apart from downwind which is fine. think downwind you could get away with it.
Cynthia Brown (55:41)
Kenny doesn't know because his is lost in
transit.
Daniel Paronetto (55:45)
Yeah, funny that happened, Ken. You're
Ken Adgate (55:47)
I'm gonna steal Jesse's, it's all good.
Cynthia Brown (55:49)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (55:51)
behind on the queue,
β all right, let's go into the next question. What do you, what do you still feel is missing in parawinging? We'll start with you Sinbad on this one.
Cynthia Brown (56:04)
Well, β funny you should ask because I have been developing a product and it's coming out soon. Right now I've been testing on Maui for a couple weeks and I've given the idea to Keholy leash. So it's a parrowing specific board leash because you know we all hate coils and the parrowing lines just tend to grab onto those coils. So a lot of us here on Maui went to these like Dyneema bungee
leashes without the coil and they were all great until they weren't because we're in heavy conditions here. β
Daniel Paronetto (56:38)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Brown (56:44)
My friend Elliot had his leash plug rip out because the bungee just has such an aggressive yank. β He's not the only one. He ripped his leash plug out. I ripped my one just casual wipe out, ripped my leash cord in half that, you know, that's on the board connecting the leash. And then two other people had the Velcro rip open on the leash attachment on the board and on the cuff.
β So that wasn't ideal. Some people have gotten away with it with small boards and less violent conditions. β I developed a leash that I hope is going to be epic. Keholy is working on it now and making prototypes and hopefully they'll be out β in a couple weeks.
Daniel Paronetto (57:32)
Nice.
Sick. So are we talking about a waist leash, ankle leash?
Cynthia Brown (57:40)
Yeah, I mean, you can do it as an ankle leash, but only a few people like that. I don't like it because I tend to step on it, but you can do it as an ankle leash, but it's designed as a waist leash.
Daniel Paronetto (57:52)
Hmm.
Nice. Yeah, well, I think that's, yeah.
Cynthia Brown (57:58)
And then one other thing. One
other, β like Elliot Laboe and Thomas Winkler and I also have come up with a really cool solution that you could para wing and sup foil and have your paddle and not have it on your back. So we're developing that also. I mean, that's not as.
as crucial as the board leash, but it's a new item that might come out that people might be stoked on.
Daniel Paronetto (58:34)
Nice. What happened to that three piece paddle that you were talking about a little while back? Do you still use it?
Cynthia Brown (58:39)
β I never got the three piece because I didn't, I didn't want to have to sit on my board, take the paddle off and put it together. So, β quick blades made me and it's epic, this paddle. And I will be using it with this new system we're developing. β it's a telescoping reverse telescoping with just where it clicks down. It's, it goes down to like.
Ken Adgate (58:59)
You
Cynthia Brown (59:03)
maybe
38 inches and then goes to my full length whatever I ride 75 or something inches with one click button and I still use it and it's ultra light ultra epic.
and that's going to be incorporated. I had that on a backpack like a rubber band, know, like a tire and a tube backpack situation. So it was short and my parrowing lines didn't get involved in it. β But what Ellie and I are working on is probably better than that.
Daniel Paronetto (59:20)
Sick.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I felt it's involved. I'm cool. Ewan, what do you think is missing, bro?
Cynthia Brown (59:42)
Bye.
Ewan (59:47)
I think it's all just gonna keep evolving. I don't think there's like one specific thing right now that I could think of. β I think everything's just gonna keep getting better and people are just gonna be, there's always gonna be the latest thing that's really good and then the next people are gonna want to beat that and yeah, I think for getting people into the sport, I think that's probably the one thing that's missing, like an easier in.
just to grow it, grow the category a bit more.
Daniel Paronetto (1:00:20)
Is that the plume though? Like if you're talking about an entry level parrowing? No? It teaches you how to fly it.
Ewan (1:00:22)
No. No. No.
Cynthia Brown (1:00:24)
now.
Ewan (1:00:28)
Yeah,
but at least right now it's not very entry level because it needs a lot of wind. β But also it's not... I don't think it's enticing anyone to do it because it just doesn't really... To me, I mean, I think to a lot of people, honestly, it doesn't make any sense. So, yeah, β I just don't see it. So I think just β an actual power wing that's easier to learn on and like a...
Daniel Paronetto (1:00:35)
Hmm.
It was a surprise when it came out.
Ewan (1:00:57)
once the industry starts figuring out, you know, the best beginner setups, like, like everyone's kind of has with winging to like, you know, really grow it and make more people want to get into it. Cause even right now there's a lot of, you know, decent wingers that are kind of still scared to or worried about trying to learn to parrowing. I think it's too hard and just the accessibility getting, getting that better. And otherwise I think it's just going to be a constant progression. I mean, that's also a progression.
So.
Daniel Paronetto (1:01:28)
What's, β when you talk about like an entry level parrying and I'm curious about this topic because I do think that's something critical for the whole industry to solve. that, makes the sport accessible. When you talk about, β beginner friendly, it low aspect? But if you do a low app, cause it's easier to get up. Right. So you would have that low end power, but then going up wind is a little bit harder. Like what's the balance there?
Ewan (1:01:51)
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of
everything you can't really just take one design parameter like aspect ratio or, you know, bridle line length or the profile that you use or any of that. It's kind of a mix of all of that. And, and also putting in like the bar feel as well. you notice if you fly lots of different pair of wings, they all feel like completely different products. Like if you, you know, if you're good at them, you could
Daniel Paronetto (1:02:01)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Ewan (1:02:18)
close your eyes and be like, yeah, this is an F1, this is Nash, this is an Ozone, like kind of thing. They all have very specific feels. β I think having them able to pump better will help beginners because right now you need that foil and board skill to get up on foil quite a lot. Like if you're not engaging your foil, you're not really getting up on foil unless you're, you know, in Hood River and you get hit by one of those 50 knot bullets where you can't not get on foil.
But I think that just having equipment that I mean people when they're learning are like not everyone but a lot of people are quite timid when they're learning and you know hesitant to really shake the thing and really pump the board and really put you know it's hard if you're not also you'll throw yourself off balance if you're not good by putting too much aggression in so having gear that you know is more just stand there and get on foil type equipment. β
Ken Adgate (1:02:48)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:02:49)
Yeah
Ewan (1:03:16)
will I think help get a lot of people over that hump of learning and get more people into it, which I mean, the rate it's growing already, I don't think there's gonna be a huge issue, but I think it's, yeah, that would be the next step.
Daniel Paronetto (1:03:18)
Yeah.
Kenoth, what are we thinking is still missing?
Ken Adgate (1:03:35)
I would
agree with you and I think we could get a pair of wing that maybe has a trim system, a little bit more structure, a little bit easier just to fly and easier characteristics to depower it, a little bit slower moving and just kind of ease of use could help people get in the sport. The biggest thing is getting them on the right board and foil to help them get to the level of
feeling comfortable and not being in position where they have to go out in super overpowered conditions and struggle. And that's probably what's forcing people not to learn. yeah, and the other thing I think adjustable like bar length, I'm excited about, I think that could be coming where you could have like a β system that turns on the bar that shortens and lengthens the line. So you can get a little bit more power and throw out of it.
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:19)
Hmm.
That's pretty sick.
Ken Adgate (1:04:29)
Yeah, so and then the material side, I'm excited about the material maybe changing, maybe doing something like Dyneema or something like that β would be fun.
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:39)
Hmm. What would the Dyneema give you in terms of performance?
Ken Adgate (1:04:43)
I think the water shedding β and then the lightness, the stiffness, β maybe more higher performance and then you'll start to get to the racing scene I think eventually. think seeing Teo dominate the wing race kind of shows you what is possible with these pair of wings. Basically a mini kite.
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:51)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. I think whenever you get to this, the, the race scene, that's when we get into material development and we're getting to that 5 % that you would just really push when you're, know, in that F1 kind of space, I guess. β I think for me, the thing that I still freaking hate about down-winding is if I'm doing a down-winder and I, know, I'm pretty offshore and I'm, you know,
An ocean downwind kind of thing. I hate those Vykobe vests. I absolutely hate them. They're the worst. they, it's not for foiling. They're meant for you to sit in a canoe and paddle. Like they don't have to be short and thick. So for me, I'm all about like getting better accessories out there. And I think like an impact vest with everything on it, like just give me everything. I want to be able to downwind. want pockets. I want stow.
Cynthia Brown (1:05:35)
now.
I'm
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:00)
front stove, back stove, just everything, hydration, the whole lot. Like I think there's so much more and I would use it even if I'm doing laps, if the thing is good enough and it has, know, β harness, β lines and hooks all connected. Like there is a way to do a vest that has everything that we need. So I feel accessories in general, we can explore something like we were talking about something that's just for wave riding.
Um, where if you do fall and you have the pair of wing, you don't want the pair of wing to come out of the belt. And sometimes even just getting rolled and like, um, a wave, the powering came out of my belt. So, um, those kinds of things, I think could, we have like so much to improve on still. So specific accessories for specific disciplines is where my head's at.
Ewan (1:06:34)
Thanks.
Ken Adgate (1:06:51)
I'm surprised they don't do like the PFD vest, the orange ones, like have inflatable sections that you could pop it open whenever you need to actually use it instead of having them basically all puffed up all the time. Basically like what they're, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:01)
Mmm. Yeah, there's heaps.
Cynthia Brown (1:07:02)
I
had a friend wearing one on a downwind run and it inflated on him and he just, you know Rudy, he had his rash guard over it too so he was like this big Michelin man, there was nothing he could do and he's downwind-ing Maliko all blown up.
Ken Adgate (1:07:10)
no. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:18)
You
Ken Adgate (1:07:18)
Yeah
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:21)
That's funny.
All right, this next question is kind of fun. β What is one piece of gear advice that most riders don't follow? And I'll start with you on this one, Ken.
Ken Adgate (1:07:36)
β board and foil. Yeah, yeah, to get in the right board and foil underneath your weight as far as what your weight is and your talent level. β It's like starting winging over it, unfortunately, until you get comfortable with it.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:46)
Mm.
Yeah. I'll go around. Cynthia, what do you think? Ewan? Bored. Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:07:55)
agree with Kenny. I totally agree. Mostly bored. Mostly bored. There's people who are so stubborn.
They're like, I got my 40 liter board and it's gonna be fine. It's like, dude, you've been learning for a year now and you still, no, a year and you still can't ride. You can't get into the waves.
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:10)
for six months.
Ewan (1:08:14)
Yeah
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:18)
Yeah, I tend to agree with you guys. What do you think, Ewan?
Ewan (1:08:20)
Yeah, pretty similar.
I'd also say like, maybe being really stubborn to like only stick to one once they're like, I'm parrowing and that's all I do now. And then going like when the condition, like, I mean, sure, if you know, you can, you know, you've had to sell the rest of your gear to get your parrowing set up and that's all you got. But most foilers have a lot of equipment and I think still doing what
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:43)
Mm.
Ewan (1:08:49)
the conditions are best for is pretty important. And I think you just get better at foiling if you do the right thing all the time. Like if it's 10 knots, go for a kite foil, which I think kite foiling is still crazy underrated. β It's gotta come back. That's what I was doing before this podcast and it's so good. It's, yeah. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:06)
It'll come back, dude.
Ken Adgate (1:09:09)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:13)
It's so good.
We had, we, mean, you taught me how to kite foil. I don't even know if you remember that, but I, every summer you would come back to Melbourne, you would teach me the kite foiling. And then the next one was, um, winging and then you didn't come back. So then it started down winning, but it was those things that when now I get the pair of wing, you know how to do all those things. And the pair wing is just second nature.
Ewan (1:09:34)
Yeah, yeah,
and just exactly being able to have the experience and all of them all ties together, like your wing experience, your sup experience, your prone experience, like any type of foil sport, they all tie together so well. And I think just people being too stubborn or saying that kite foiling is lame or this is whatever it's like, I think that's probably it for me. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:56)
Mmm.
My excuse was it, was for the old crew. And when I blow up my knees, I'll do it. And then I tried it once and sold all my twin tip gear and just did that forever. So, but all of us have kite folding experience, winging, like that's, that's why I think you can explore the parrowing a lot better. And I feel like if people come from winging, they start parrowing. All of a sudden they'll be like, what are we, what if we throw 15 meter lines on the parrowing? You know, and then you're like, yeah.
Ewan (1:10:03)
Yeah
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:10:30)
yeah, we should. know, in 15 odd days are pretty, pretty fun. Did you? Did you convert a power link to?
Cynthia Brown (1:10:32)
that.
No, no, mean, we all, no, no, I came from kite
foiling. I'm saying we did, I did that back like in the 90s, Before Kenny was born. I was kite foiling before Kenny. I actually was, I was kite foiling the air chair with snowboard boots, you know, the whole deal. So yeah, was a long time ago.
Ewan (1:10:40)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:10:41)
Yeah, that's it.
Ewan (1:10:45)
Hehehehe... Hehehehe...
Ken Adgate (1:10:46)
Nineties!
Daniel Paronetto (1:10:46)
Yeah, well,
in the 90s.
It's a long time ago and what I'll do as well. I'm going to link all the podcasts that cause we all had conversations. β and we did dive into that stuff with you, Sinbad, which was awesome. β how you started and you know, how early you were into all of these sports and, β even parawinging with that parachute contraption.
Cynthia Brown (1:11:21)
That's because none of you guys
were born yet. So when Kenny's talking about the bar that adjusts length, I know that bar, Flowbee, the guy that invented the hair cutting was in La Ventana in 2001 and he had developed the Flowbee bar and he would jump up and down so he could self launch and land his own kite.
Ewan (1:11:24)
Okay.
Daniel Paronetto (1:11:25)
Well, someone had to do it. Jeez.
Ken Adgate (1:11:26)
Ha ha ha ha.
Cynthia Brown (1:11:50)
He would shorten the lines by ratcheting it. And one day, and the thing was so heavy, one day a gust hit him. It ripped it out of his hands and the whole kite with this like 40 pound bar went sailing off into the desert.
Ewan (1:12:04)
Thank
Ken Adgate (1:12:05)
It's coming back.
Daniel Paronetto (1:12:07)
Good old days. β Bring it back. That's what we want. β
What's the most innovative product launched in 2025?
Ken Adgate (1:12:21)
I like the RADx system at the show. I'm excited that people are actually thinking about doing adjustable tuttles. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:12:29)
Mm. Yeah. Can you explain that
a little bit? Because not everyone saw that or might know what that is.
Ken Adgate (1:12:34)
It's basically the track is inside the Tuttle and it has two t-nuts that you could slide the Tuttle back and forth on the board and then it tightens from The top side or the basic the bottom side. It's kind of hard to explain You'd have to see the video but it is an adjustable Tuttle and then we also designed one with Michael McKinley, which is in the Bay Area adjustable Tuttle as well. So
Daniel Paronetto (1:12:43)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Adgate (1:13:02)
I think you're gonna see a lot more tuttles coming, especially, I think a lot of these manufacturers going to the skinny mast, then they're gonna want it, as the riders get better, they're gonna want a more performance mast as far as stiffness. And in the wing sets, as big as these wing sets are getting, you're gonna want a really stiff mast. And I think the layup that you could do on a tuttle mast is far superior versus the plate. So I think you're gonna see a lot of the high-end riders wanting to start go more to the tuttle.
So it'll be interesting how many people are going to switch.
Daniel Paronetto (1:13:35)
Yeah, I saw Apple Tree with something like that β at AWSI. That looked pretty cool too. β Sinbad, what's the most innovative product we saw this year for parawinging?
Ken Adgate (1:13:38)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:13:50)
don't know if it was innovative, I just think it was one of the better products was the ozone stash belt, which I mean every para winger from around the world, no matter what the para winger they're using, they're using that belt because it's just simple and it works. you know, I mean, it's, it wasn't like, well, I just had a little hand in it, but it did.
Daniel Paronetto (1:14:05)
Mm-hmm.
And you designed it.
Ken Adgate (1:14:13)
She's biased.
Daniel Paronetto (1:14:16)
She's a little biased.
Cynthia Brown (1:14:16)
I mean my sin sac was
pretty good before, Kenny had a custom sin sac before the Ozone stash belt and it was exactly, you it just like a rudimentary homemade thing similar that worked, did great, it was tiny and you could jam your whole wing in there and forget about it but that's my opinion.
Daniel Paronetto (1:14:21)
is
Mm.
But the cool thing about that
belt is the introduction of the Lycra, which for me was really what made it. Yeah. And good on you have some more of those ideas because we need them. but you're right. Like I think in hood, 90 % of the riders had that belt, even whatever, doesn't matter what pair we were parrying. were on, they were using that belt and still today it's, β there's nothing else that is better.
Cynthia Brown (1:14:42)
That was it. That was my idea was the Lycra.
Daniel Paronetto (1:15:07)
Mine's a little saggy. need a new one. We need, you know what we need? We need a way to replace the Lycra because if that gets damaged, you need a whole new belt. So we need maybe some zippers or something that we can replace that just that component. There's that bit of the belt.
Ewan (1:15:22)
Yeah,
we've got a new belt coming out as well. Different materials.
Cynthia Brown (1:15:23)
They have a new one coming.
Daniel Paronetto (1:15:28)
Talk about, talk about your belt. Different materials, Lycra.
Ewan (1:15:30)
No, it's not Lycra,
it's like a very stretchy mesh type material that like the links are so small that nothing can go through it. It's not like big mesh, but it's cool because the water drains out of it straight away and also stretchy and it's pretty tough. It's yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:15:39)
Hmm.
Nice.
Yeah. Does it compress the power wing? it strong? Like, is it height enough?
Ewan (1:15:56)
Yeah, it's stronger than Lycra. β
Similar stretch, maybe not quite as much stretch as a Lycra, β but far, far like more stronger elastic.
Daniel Paronetto (1:16:05)
Mm-hmm.
Ewan (1:16:10)
so that's a ProLinit pouch that's coming out.
Daniel Paronetto (1:16:09)
That'll be cool.
Ewan (1:16:13)
think they're finished making them in about three or four weeks and then they're small so they airship out. So yeah, six weeks probably.
Daniel Paronetto (1:16:22)
Okay. Not too long. Start of the year. Have a look at pro limit. β Ken, what do you think was the.
Cynthia Brown (1:16:28)
Is it by pro limit?
Ewan (1:16:29)
β sorry.
Cynthia Brown (1:16:32)
Is it BiProLimit that makes the wetsuits or is it... β okay.
Ewan (1:16:35)
Yeah, well, I kind of
did it, β but β I kind of designed it with ProLimit. Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:16:43)
Okay.
Ken Adgate (1:16:45)
Do you think an upper chest, like where you slide it in an upper chest is an idea of maybe coming?
Ewan (1:16:51)
Yeah, the slide in the side for me, I'd know like it, guess F1 have that one as well. β It's hard and to keep it all clean is really hard because I like stashing it in and putting my bar on top so that when you pull it out, you can separate them. Sometimes I also slide it in, turn it around and stick the bar through just the strap in the front so that I keep them nicely separated. So then I can, when I...
Cynthia Brown (1:16:58)
It's
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:17:18)
I am.
Ewan (1:17:20)
twist it around and then I pull the bar out first, twist it around and then pull it out and I've already got it in two hands so they're not getting tangled. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:17:28)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Adgate (1:17:30)
I'm thinking for the second one more than anything. I like to carry them on the back, but I'm thinking if you had it the front, you could switch them out while you're riding, which is kind nice in a way, but I don't know.
Ewan (1:17:32)
Mmm. Yeah.
Yeah, I also I was doing I had a pouch
with two pockets inside like two internal pockets so you could put two in front of each other. But it's
Daniel Paronetto (1:17:53)
Does that work or is it hard to like actually find the pocket?
Ewan (1:17:54)
Yeah, it's not...
I mean, we're not making it, but, β the idea was kinda there, but... yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:17:59)
Yeah, could do maybe like
instead of going like one overlaying each other just two separate pockets. Yeah.
Ewan (1:18:04)
Yeah, what side by side? Yeah. No, it was two separate pockets.
Daniel Paronetto (1:18:08)
Yeah, as a just different orientation of the pockets
Ewan (1:18:09)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:18:11)
really. Simbad, you were going to say something?
Cynthia Brown (1:18:12)
I tried this.
Well, I tried the very first, I tried side stuffing and it's too hard. Like you need to put your hand in the other way and pull it through. So, I mean, I tried them in the very, very beginning. And then when we go down when they need to bring two, just bring like the ozone, which is so easy in and out. And then I bring my little sin sack, which is a separate little like or sack, super tight cinched so it doesn't get waterlogged and you can change on the fly.
So
I can see the chest you could change on the fly but like the backpack thing, I mean Ozone's coming out with this waterproof backpack thing with a second wing but like you have to get off foil to change wings so I mean I guess it's for emergency it's great but I like if I need to change wings on the fly I like to have it around my waist.
Daniel Paronetto (1:18:55)
Mmm.
Still a bit of little work to be done there. Yeah. I guess from my point of view, I don't have a product that I think was revolutionary or anything, but I do like the kind of crowdsourced ideas that are coming through the Facebook groups and people just building and 3D printing stuff. and I think the, probably the product that kind of was a paradigm shift was the harness.
Loops that you connect onto the bar and you hook onto the bar. It's kind of like rethinking about how to do it instead of having a fixed point on the bar that you hook in like a kite. The hook is on your belt and then you pull that onto the bar. I felt that was just a clever way of thinking about it. and I think if I were to you, cause I don't use a harness, I don't like it, but if I were to use it, that's probably how I would use it because then I'm doing, I don't know a big.
leg upwind or something like that. β and I don't need to have that quick kind of like hooking in hooking out hooking in hooking out. So I thought that was pretty smart. β a guy called Michael Shepherd came up with that little hook that you can clip on your bar, little bar clips. Like those things are.
popping up all the time, so it's cool just to follow that innovation and see how people are solving their problems while things are not coming out.
Cynthia Brown (1:20:30)
What's interesting is that Greg had that hook, like the very version one Maliko. That's what Greg was using here in Maui, was the hook on a rope. And I tried it. I mean, this was like...
Daniel Paronetto (1:20:44)
I think it works
great.
Cynthia Brown (1:20:46)
It does if you're strong enough to hold, for me I can't do it because I don't like to let go of the bar and then hook something on. But it's funny because it was developed like in the very beginning, just the rest of the world didn't see it.
Ewan (1:20:49)
Mm-hmm
Daniel Paronetto (1:21:01)
I didn't see it at all. I didn't even know he had that.
Cynthia Brown (1:21:04)
Yeah, he did. I don't even, I don't know if he sold it on his website or whatever, but he showed it to me, like back, Maliko V1, Zay's. That's what he was using. And then he abandoned it and went to the fixed loop.
Daniel Paronetto (1:21:16)
Wow.
Do you guys all use harnesses and love hook in while you're writing?
Ewan (1:21:28)
Why, why do you not?
Ken Adgate (1:21:29)
Yeah, many, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:21:32)
I look,
I don't know. think in the beginning I had it and it really helped me when I was learning. β But then I started to get these little tangles on the hook and things like that. And I just dished it and then I'm like, well, I don't really need this. I do sessions. did a session here in St. Kilda. I was out for two hours and 50 minutes, did 50 kilometers on the Parawing and I was on hook for the whole time. And I just got used to it. It got me.
Ewan (1:21:57)
It's
Cynthia Brown (1:21:58)
Wow.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:01)
You know what it feels like
Cynthia Brown (1:22:01)
Popeye.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:02)
now? It got me back to like cable riding where it's like, it's, it's actually like physical and I'm kind of enjoying that physicality of it. And now I'm just used to writing it like that. And it's fine.
Ewan (1:22:03)
Yeah.
Ken Adgate (1:22:05)
Yeah.
Ewan (1:22:14)
Yeah,
definitely like if I'm trying to do an upwind session, I definitely upsize my board β and downsize my power wing. That's kind of, and just cruise upwind β as opposed to downwinding. I'll, then I'll take a big power wing and a small board, but that's kind of horrible to go upwind on when you're that powered up.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:32)
The opposite really. Yeah.
Yeah. What's the smallest board you guys have been able to ride?
Ewan (1:22:41)
33 I've done a few times. It's just not really worth it for me.
Ken Adgate (1:22:43)
Okay.
45 for me.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:47)
Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:22:48)
Yeah.
Whatever Kenny left here at the house, 40 something, don't know. 45, yeah. It's fine for me because I'm light enough, but yeah, it's just not worth it.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:50)
Yeah, 42. What was yours in bed? 40.
Ken Adgate (1:22:54)
45. Yeah, it's like 42-45. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:58)
Mm.
Ewan (1:23:02)
Yeah,
I feel like for me I'm at 80 kilos, which is whatever in pounds. 170, 180, yeah. But like a 53 liter board is like my downwind board when I know it's on and I want to go downwind on a small board and then I have a 58 or a 60. 68 is what I usually use if I'm just cruising around staying upwind and can use a smaller pair of wings.
Ken Adgate (1:23:10)
Same as me, 183.
Daniel Paronetto (1:23:10)
180... yeah.
Ewan (1:23:30)
almost, I mean, 68 I can get floating with like not much power at all and then kind of just pump it up onto foil. But um, yeah definitely, definitely still using a harness line though, that's crazy that you... it's just... yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:23:46)
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why did like,
Cynthia Brown (1:23:47)
Popeye.
Ken Adgate (1:23:47)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha
Daniel Paronetto (1:23:49)
and everybody says, what are you doing? And I just don't like that hook dangling there. And it's so easy to solve. It's literally like a little neoprene pocket in the webbing that you just stuff it in. Like there's just no one who did that. And I should have done it because I learned how to sew recently because I'm sewing stuff as well. And it's something easy to solve.
Ewan (1:24:10)
Yeah, I do usually like
to not have it tangled. If I'm gonna stash my parrowing, I'll like turn my harness around first before, because otherwise you'll get the lines on the hook. And if you turn a belt around first, so the pouch is at the front, then there's nothing for it to catch on. β But I don't really, other than that, I don't really find it getting caught any other time. And yeah, I just use like a two, like a
Daniel Paronetto (1:24:20)
Mm-hmm.
Ewan (1:24:39)
Piece of spectra line with a pigtail on my bar is like a two-point harness line, which I much prefer over the single point.
Daniel Paronetto (1:24:48)
Hmm. And the single point also has kind of like that rigid plastic. Yeah. That kind of keeps it all bulky. Yeah. And when I did use it, I had the same thing. had two, β little bowl lines, connected to the bar and I was just on a Dyneema for, for Mildyneema. β and that was fine.
Ewan (1:24:52)
Yeah, we just get some tangles all the time as well when you're like redeploying. Yeah.
Yeah.
Ken Adgate (1:25:12)
The ride engine chest harness, that's the reason why I went to that versus the waist belt. Because the lines just kept on getting caught. So the chest, doesn't get caught at all.
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:17)
Tangles.
Ewan (1:25:18)
Hmm. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:22)
You've been writing that for a while now. Do you think you, you, it's a better riding position as well when you're powered up? Do you feel you can hold a little more because it's on the chest?
Ken Adgate (1:25:29)
Yeah,
for the bigger sizes, yeah, because you could get the wing or the pair wing basically parallel to the water and same with with with regular winging. β The bigger sizes you could get a more vertical. So just more comfortable hooking in. So.
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:40)
Mmm.
Yeah.
And you can fit a pair of wing in the backpack. That's cool.
Ken Adgate (1:25:48)
Yeah, that's a big advantage too.
And water, whatever you want in the back, which is nice.
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:52)
Hmm.
Nice. All right. Let's move on. Cause we're at one in, well, we're not doing too bad on time. this is the last question before our rapid fires. So I don't have an answer to this one, but what is the one thing you're confident will change in parawinging next year? And the one thing that won't.
Let's, who didn't start one yet? Let's start with you, Ewan. You didn't start one, did you?
Ewan (1:26:18)
No.
I'm confident brands will come out with more than one model, every brand, for different disciplines. Is this a rapid fire? I elaborate?
Daniel Paronetto (1:26:32)
No, no, no, no, this is the last one before the rapid fire. You can elaborate.
Ken Adgate (1:26:33)
Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:26:36)
Yeah.
Ewan (1:27:03)
the easy upwind power wing with maybe slightly longer bridles and more stability and then a super grunty one for the guys, girls that want to go downwind. And then you're going to start seeing race ones obviously and freestyle ones and wave riding ones and whatever else it's going to start happening.
Daniel Paronetto (1:27:07)
Mm.
Nice. Is that a little tip on what's coming in the pipeline for Nash?
Ewan (1:27:30)
Yeah, yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:27:32)
All
right.
Daniel Paronetto (1:27:35)
good stuff. And the hatch, the hatch when you, where would you put the hatch in that kind of... β
Ewan (1:27:40)
Yeah, I mean, that's first like, you
know, we had our morph come out like pretty early days. It was like one of the first power wings. The hatch was just our first, you know, all rounder have a good power wing out there. And then now we've kind of got a good base to work off. We can start, you know, progressing that style, progressing the downwind style, progressing. You know, I mean, I think once you start getting into the those disciplines, especially race and stuff, though, it's
Daniel Paronetto (1:27:47)
Mm-hmm.
Ewan (1:28:10)
a lot of development time, a lot of testing, a lot of work. I personally don't have probably the time to dive deep into a race parrowing. That would kind of be all consuming. I think once that starts becoming a discipline, I'm sure, I mean, you look at the race kites and stuff like that. It's, it's yeah, pretty, specialized and yeah, you're, I mean, as well, you see like the ozone fly surfer battle.
Ken Adgate (1:28:23)
Thank
Daniel Paronetto (1:28:25)
Mmm.
mental.
Ewan (1:28:38)
always happening in the kite race scene it's like they make a one percent gain and all of a sudden all the rest of stuff's obsolete and the one percent gain product is like the one for a year and then ozone will come out with their one percent gain and all the fly surfer kites are dead for the so it's i don't know if it's like a β nash is not like a β you know racing pedigree brand that's really dedicated to that and i think it's going to be probably the same type of brands that were in kite for racing
Daniel Paronetto (1:28:41)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Brown (1:28:47)
huh.
Daniel Paronetto (1:29:00)
Mm-hmm.
Ewan (1:29:07)
taking over wing racing. They've got the expertise and the knowledge.
Daniel Paronetto (1:29:13)
Yep. I, yeah, I think, you know, Nash's pedigree is very much wave writing. So let's see that wave writing, parowing bro. That's what we want from you. Um, and the other thing that I wanted to ask you, um, so now you're the designer of not only the kites, but the pair wings. What do you, what do you feel a hybrid parowing can give us like half single skin, half double skin? Is that a thing you think that's going to give us any?
Ewan (1:29:20)
Yeah
Cynthia Brown (1:29:21)
sorry.
Ewan (1:29:39)
Yeah, for sure. That's, I think,
yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, the double skins so far that I've seen have not really done it for me. Like, they haven't really shown the benefit, I would say, yet, maybe for racing. I mean, definitely for racing. But for everyday use, they're just, I think, more pain than...
Daniel Paronetto (1:29:53)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Everybody is nodding here, so I think everybody agrees.
Ken Adgate (1:30:04)
That's it.
Ewan (1:30:08)
what you get out, you're using so much more canopy, such a big pair of wing, people are sinking them, getting them stuck, like it's like hard to get up on foil. So I just don't see that yet. But the hybrid, then you can, you know, at least you can have a much more powerful canopy. You can still stash it pretty easily. Like it's going to be a bit more stable. You can work with different angle of attacks. And I think I think the hybrids are going to
Cynthia Brown (1:30:08)
Thank
Ewan (1:30:37)
definitely start becoming a little more well they're not really popular at all yet but you see some snow kites and paragliders and stuff that are hybrids that that's kind of definitely a way there's definitely a spot for them
Daniel Paronetto (1:30:45)
Mm-hmm.
Interesting. β The one thing that you think won't change, that if you don't.
Ewan (1:30:56)
Mmm.
I think the main thing that won't change is that the main thing people want to do is ride waves with nothing in their hands. Which is, I think, the whole draw of parawinging. It's like the ultimate of so far what we've got in foiling.
Cynthia Brown (1:31:14)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:18)
Kenneth, what do you think will change next year?
Ken Adgate (1:31:19)
β
I think you're going to see more race versions coming out. β Maybe some race is as far as like setting up like an upwind leg to a downwind without the para wing kind of a mix up like Liam was talking about in that event they had in the UK. β I think that could be really fun. β And then as far as things that don't change, I don't think the innovation will change. I think everybody is just going to keep pushing the sport.
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:34)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm. I love that.
Ken Adgate (1:31:48)
and learning from what's working and what's not working and what the riders want. So I think that's not going to change.
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:57)
Yeah, I'm still, I would be really curious to see what happens. think, Cynthia, you think M2O will have pair winging division next year?
Cynthia Brown (1:32:07)
β I don't know. It's such an extreme race because of the wind. the wind can just shut down. It's, it's already challenging enough to do it on a hand wing and you have to be on a seven meter hand wing. So I don't know. I don't think they would sanction, β a class, but people might just do it and have a boat support.
Daniel Paronetto (1:32:17)
Hmm.
Yeah, I think, β and this is something that happened in downwinding. think all of the guys, β that I talked to, β from code foils like James Casey, he's really adamant about, you know, we're do we're down winning because we want to surf and now it's all about speed. I'm well, dude, if you put race in the name, it's, it's the fastest from a to B. So in the power wing, it'll be like a powered up downwind run. Right. So to your point, Ken, I think it would be cool to have some sort of event.
Cynthia Brown (1:32:49)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ken Adgate (1:32:52)
Yeah.
You
Daniel Paronetto (1:33:05)
that it is a race, but it's an upwind leg up race that you then have to go downwind without the power wing. And then it's kind of cool because you need to know how to stow it. Cause if you screw up your redeploy, someone will pass you. So there's all those things that are all the things that we struggle with on a normal session. And then, you know, you can see techniques getting better because they're doing it for a race. So it'll be cool. And then accessories and all that stuff could come from that.
Cynthia Brown (1:33:08)
Right.
Ken Adgate (1:33:11)
Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:33:12)
Exactly.
Ewan (1:33:28)
Yeah, and even foil choice, like you were
saying, like on a nice stable kind of mid aspect foil, you can really push upwind hard compared to like a big downwind style foil, which you wouldn't be able to exactly. like choosing choosing what where you gain, whether it's the upwind or downwind leg or what what the, you know, the sweet spot is for that would be cool as well to see it. You could have people, you know,
Cynthia Brown (1:33:41)
Yeah, but you'll need the downwind foil for the downwind pump part, so...
Ken Adgate (1:33:44)
Yeah. β
Cynthia Brown (1:33:49)
Yeah.
Ken Adgate (1:33:51)
Yeah.
Ewan (1:33:56)
winning upwind by five minutes and then getting caught right at the finish line by the downwind foils could be pretty cool to see the different techniques.
Daniel Paronetto (1:34:04)
Yeah. And we've spoken about this a few times with different people. Like it could be a three kilometer course and you could see the whole thing. You can actually experience the whole event in front of you, which in a downwind race, it's very hard. know, you have A to B and that you're never going to see the whole thing. β so if anyone's keen on doing an event out there, that's a cool one to get done.
Ken Adgate (1:34:14)
Yeah.
Ewan (1:34:23)
That sounds like a great one in the bay.
Ken Adgate (1:34:23)
Thank you.
Ewan (1:34:26)
In Melbourne. Sorry, not your bay, Kenny. Our bay in Melbourne.
Ken Adgate (1:34:27)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:34:27)
I, well, yeah, I think it's, it's not like,
Ken Adgate (1:34:31)
Well, it could be an Arbe too.
Cynthia Brown (1:34:34)
Some of the gnarliest racing ever in Kenny's
Daniel Paronetto (1:34:35)
and I think about a lot.
Ewan (1:34:36)
Hehehehehe
Cynthia Brown (1:34:37)
Bay.
Ken Adgate (1:34:37)
Yeah,
yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:34:39)
Yeah, that's, that's not what I think. Like Melbourne is such a good spot for powering man. Like I think about where to go around the world and like, man, we got a good here. And it could be something interesting to, to explore, like a Brighton to Elwood thing. And that's a three kilometer stint. And you can be in the top of the hill and you can just see the whole thing, which is quite cool. Simbad.
Ewan (1:34:44)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:35:05)
What do you think will change for next year? Sorry, Ken, did you answer? What do you think will not change? if you want to. Innovation.
Ken Adgate (1:35:10)
Just the innovation.
Yeah, I think everybody's just going to keep pushing the sport until we find the top.
Cynthia Brown (1:35:17)
I agree with both Ewan and Kenny about their response. My only β added comment would be, I think there's going to be like a bazillion
parrowing manufacturers next year, because I think a lot of companies, they want to jump in and they think it's probably an easy thing to develop because it's small, but when it's really not an easy thing to develop.
BRM, I've seen him with a hybrid prototype here and it actually looks really good. I was shocked, I watched the low end, it was a light wind day which is rare for here. He went out on a low wind day and got up easily and was out and it seemed kind of like it might be a really cool thing.
Daniel Paronetto (1:35:53)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's cool. And I saw the, well, the guys from triple seven said that they have something that's pretty, pretty developed now in, the hybrid space as well. So that could be coming out pretty soon. So it will happen. Um, and we'll see if it's, if it's worth it or not, because I think losing bottom end and having a five meter pair of wing is not what I want. I always try to downsize my pair of wing as much as possible to the point where I'm almost.
preferring a slightly bigger board these days to be able to ride a small parrowing, especially if I'm doing laps because easier to stow, less tangles, better redeploys, all that stuff. So I would rather be on a two and a half or three and a bigger board than a three and a half or four and a small board like any day of the week.
Cynthia Brown (1:36:55)
Yep, I agree.
Daniel Paronetto (1:36:58)
β I don't have a, I don't know what's not what's going to change next year, to be honest, but I think the one thing that won't is everybody asking for advice saying what board should I go on? And then you say, start on, you know, a board that's 20 liters over your, your weight. And then you're like, can I get away with a 40 liter? Like that question will never go away. And the answer is, well, why do you even ask me that? And then just do whatever you want. β
Ken Adgate (1:37:13)
Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:37:17)
Yes.
Ken Adgate (1:37:18)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:37:25)
I think just get those first sessions in. β lot of the questions that people ask me are people getting into the sport. So have five sessions on a big board that you're actually doing the sport and you'll just get over that hump of just hand handling the parrying in the water. Learn that and then move on. So that's, I'm just going to direct people to this answer now. All right. Rapid fire. We need to wake up now because it's been an hour and 40 and this is going to be quick. got eight questions.
Ken Adgate (1:37:50)
All right.
Daniel Paronetto (1:37:55)
If we want to debate the answers and if we get conflicting answers, can. If everybody agrees, we can just move on. Are we ready? All right. First one, small boards, overrated or underrated? Simbad.
Cynthia Brown (1:38:12)
How small? It depends. That's the thing.
Daniel Paronetto (1:38:17)
No, there's none of that. Small or big, whatever small means to you, whatever big means to you.
Ewan (1:38:18)
Hehehehe
Cynthia Brown (1:38:24)
love small boards. just like that's a trick question. I don't get it because we just talked about beginners not learning on small boards. Go to Kenny.
Daniel Paronetto (1:38:35)
Kenny, overrated
or underrated?
Ken Adgate (1:38:37)
In my eyes, I a big board and a small board underrated.
Ewan (1:38:41)
Yeah, yeah. I'd say underrated how good it is on foil, overrated for how much of a hassle it can be.
Daniel Paronetto (1:38:42)
Ewan?
Yep, I say overrated. Sinbad, do you have an opinion?
Cynthia Brown (1:38:55)
No, well I said, yeah, it just depends what you mean by small, but yeah, I would just say overrated generally, yeah. Makes it harder.
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:04)
overrated generally.
Cool. What's the one skill that every rider should master? Start with you and...
Ewan (1:39:13)
a clean stone redeploy so you don't come off foil.
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:18)
Kenneth?
Ken Adgate (1:39:20)
learning to switch your feet and riding in the opposite stance.
Ewan (1:39:22)
I changed mine, that's mine. β
Cynthia Brown (1:39:24)
I totally
agree switching your feet so you can get upwind to the waves.
Ewan (1:39:28)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:30)
To me it's the stove. Just practice the stove. I think people will like get up on the foil and then put the pair of wing away and never get it out again. So do that more. Short lines or long lines? Ewan.
Ewan (1:39:46)
for powering ice. Sorry. That's such a kite question for me. Medium. I don't know, I guess short. If you can design around a short bridle set, then yeah, it's better.
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:50)
No, for time foiling. It is.
Hmm Ken
Ken Adgate (1:40:05)
short.
Cynthia Brown (1:40:07)
going with medium because there is too short I mean it was proven and β I'm not I can't say the brand but they came out with a V2 and the lines were too short and people were miserable so there's a fine line there's I don't know that answer medium yeah yeah arms like dangle dangle length
Ken Adgate (1:40:26)
Arms length, arms length. Yes. Yeah.
Ewan (1:40:26)
Yeah, arm's length is perfect.
Daniel Paronetto (1:40:26)
medium.
Yep. Dangle length. I'm going short and I'm taking that arm length as the short. We already answered this. Harness line, yes or no? Simbad.
Cynthia Brown (1:40:41)
Yes.
Ken Adgate (1:40:44)
Yes, yes.
Daniel Paronetto (1:40:44)
Ken,
Ewan (1:40:44)
Yep.
Daniel Paronetto (1:40:46)
you and I'm a no, but that might change. I'm gonna try it again. I haven't put it on for a long time, so I might just try it after this podcast.
Ken Adgate (1:40:54)
Go
out with a session with me with six hours and let's see how long you last.
Ewan (1:40:57)
you
Cynthia Brown (1:40:58)
he
went to, he said he went three hours. No he went, Daniel went three hours, no harness. Popeye.
Daniel Paronetto (1:40:58)
Six hours, are you a monster? Jesus Christ, I don't have that time.
Ken Adgate (1:41:00)
No, it's because of the
harness.
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:04)
Yeah, three hours is enough, isn't it?
Yeah, and it was pumping. What's the most versatile paring size? Ewan.
Ken Adgate (1:41:09)
That's impressive.
Ewan (1:41:17)
Three and a half.
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:19)
Kenneth?
Ken Adgate (1:41:19)
I
like three for hood, but 3.6, yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:41:24)
Three for me, but I'm on the small side. So three is really, that's perfect size.
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:26)
Simbad.
I'd go 3.2, a little bit more than If you had to give one up in a pair of wing, what would be the top end or the low end? Let's start with you on this one, Simbad.
Cynthia Brown (1:41:46)
Can you start with Kenny? I have to think about that.
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:49)
Ken.
Ken Adgate (1:41:51)
I would
say I would say low end. I would say low end because you could always fly it off A's.
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:56)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Brown (1:41:58)
You would give up low end? Wait. OK. OK.
Daniel Paronetto (1:41:59)
Ewan?
Ken Adgate (1:42:01)
No, no, I would want low ends and then you could always ride the tie end off
Ewan (1:42:01)
Yeah.
Ken Adgate (1:42:05)
A's. Like when he's super overpowered you could literally just take all your A's and put them in your hand or in your fingers, all the front A lines and just ride it off the front.
Cynthia Brown (1:42:07)
Okay.
Ewan (1:42:11)
No, you're giving up your top end.
It doesn't work like that. It's... It's... It's... It's trying to kill you in the top end.
Ken Adgate (1:42:16)
I'm trying to kill you.
Daniel Paronetto (1:42:16)
Yeah
Yeah.
Ewan (1:42:23)
Yeah, I'd give up the top end too though. I don't want to get stuck.
Cynthia Brown (1:42:28)
would agree. give up the top end. Yeah, I give up the top end. I didn't understand the question. I am kind of blonde, so I give up the top end. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:42:29)
Yep, simbad?
It's
weird. I would give up the low end and just go on a bigger pair of wing. β I just love to have that no limit feel on the pair of wing. And that's why I came back to the Pocket Rocket. I'm like, God, this thing is just, it's limitless. Like the more wind goes in that thing, the more you go upwind.
Kind of liking that at the moment.
Ken Adgate (1:42:59)
Well, you could ride the double skin and we'll be doing laps around you as you're trying to get up
Cynthia Brown (1:43:03)
Yeah. Or
Daniel Paronetto (1:43:03)
I tried getting up the other day.
Cynthia Brown (1:43:07)
the barge will be honking
Daniel Paronetto (1:43:08)
I tried to get up the other day.
Cynthia Brown (1:43:08)
at you and can't get up.
Daniel Paronetto (1:43:12)
with two power wings. And I think two power wings is actually better than a big one.
Cynthia Brown (1:43:20)
Interesting.
Daniel Paronetto (1:43:21)
Once you're up, just, you just toss it and there's no one riding. So there's not like no one is going to run over it or anything. And then you just kind of just play around it and just pick it up whenever you're ready to go. what's the worst habit most pair wings have.
Start with you, Simbad. You gotta be first in one of them.
Cynthia Brown (1:43:44)
Wait, the worst habit?
Daniel Paronetto (1:43:48)
What's the worst habit that you see out there that parawingers have?
Ewan (1:43:50)
Okay.
Cynthia Brown (1:43:51)
the parawinger's have. Probably going on too, too. I thought you meant the parowing. Like what is the worst habit my parowing has? So parowingers, I think β we already went through this going on too small of a board.
Daniel Paronetto (1:43:54)
Mm. This is a Parawing E podcast. We're just talking about Parawing.
β yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ewan (1:44:12)
bad, bad stows, bad stashes, just because we've already said a few other ones.
Daniel Paronetto (1:44:12)
EJ?
Yep. Ken.
Ken Adgate (1:44:21)
Being desperate and going out in conditions they shouldn't
Daniel Paronetto (1:44:24)
Yep. I'll change mine was stowing as well. Just when people like wrap the lines, like do that. That's definitely no, but I think just, β overall just body position. Like people just ride with that poo stance and I'm like, you know, firm up those glutes and just tighten up a little bit and just, just good body position will go a long way. β it'll, it'll help you tremendously. β all right. Would you rather ride a small foil?
Ewan (1:44:27)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:44:55)
and a big board or a big board and a small foil.
Ewan (1:45:00)
think for downwind big board small file and for for sessioning smaller board big file, no.
Daniel Paronetto (1:45:10)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. For laps.
Ewan (1:45:14)
Yeah, it depends how big a foil we're talking. If it's like 1500, I'll take their bigger board with the small foil.
Daniel Paronetto (1:45:21)
Nobody would
ride a 1500. What are the, like the size up, like would you size up, you know, one size up of what you normally ride?
Ewan (1:45:29)
I think it just depends on the day. Sometimes one way, sometimes the other way.
Ken Adgate (1:45:34)
or the size of the waves.
Ewan (1:45:34)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:45:34)
Mm-hmm.
Ewan (1:45:35)
Yeah, if it's small waves, it's big foils, not bad.
Daniel Paronetto (1:45:39)
and bad.
Cynthia Brown (1:45:39)
So
you're assuming that I have the luxury of foil choice. I have one foil. And I have one board. Well, I actually have two. I have a F4 685 or a 530. So the 685 is my daily driver. I don't have the luxury of anything bigger right now. And I have only one board.
Daniel Paronetto (1:45:47)
What's your foil? Aw, poor thing.
Ken Adgate (1:45:49)
Hey, don't you feel bad for her?
Ewan (1:45:51)
Hehehehe
Cynthia Brown (1:46:08)
I'm just, I don't have.
Ken Adgate (1:46:11)
No, she has 30 boards and she has 15 foils.
Daniel Paronetto (1:46:11)
I'm feeling bad.
Ewan (1:46:14)
Hehehe
Cynthia Brown (1:46:15)
No, those 30 boards have have Tuttle
and I only have one track board. So and I have one track mask or a Tuttle mask.
Ken Adgate (1:46:26)
There's Kalama art all in her living room.
Cynthia Brown (1:46:28)
yeah, there's one behind me. Yeah,
because...
Ken Adgate (1:46:32)
Well, there it is, it's on the video.
Daniel Paronetto (1:46:33)
Oh, there you go.
There you go. A little plug. Yeah. Don't make us feel bad for you because you have, you have the latest foil set up and the latest board that came out. let's you'll be.
Cynthia Brown (1:46:37)
I don't know. I like a small board.
I do, I do. I have the Rolex
Ken Adgate (1:46:47)
Yep.
Cynthia Brown (1:46:49)
set up. So I would say small board. If I had a big foil, I'd still ride a small
Daniel Paronetto (1:46:55)
I'm enjoying a little bit of a bigger board and smaller foil at this stage just for what I'm doing. Um, and the last one, it's a similar thing. Do you prefer to be on a bigger pair of wing and a smaller board or a smaller pair of wing and a slightly larger board?
I'll start with you Ken.
Ken Adgate (1:47:18)
I would say a bigger pair of wing for me. I like to, because I just like that being more powered up feel.
Daniel Paronetto (1:47:24)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, you're pretty like the one thing that caught my eye and who it is just like everybody's like cruising around and then you see this one thing like that's Ken like just blast as fast as you can. like that. β
Cynthia Brown (1:47:35)
You β
Ewan (1:47:41)
Yeah, probably
a mole-powered, power wing.
Daniel Paronetto (1:47:45)
Simbad.
Cynthia Brown (1:47:46)
like a smaller pair of wing. I like dainty. don't, I just collapsing a big one I'd rather collapse a little one all day long.
Daniel Paronetto (1:47:55)
Yep. I'm with you on that one. kind of try to ride the smallest power wing I can. And then I kind of work downwards from that and then go board and foil. β and that's probably cause I unhooked, right? It's probably hard to write unhooked if you're on a big board and big power wing. All right. The last thing we have to do here, ladies and gentlemen, is do what's the ultimate power wing set up. And we can do this as a group. Ken, you had some good thoughts that.
Ken Adgate (1:48:12)
Yep, true.
Daniel Paronetto (1:48:25)
I think we're all going to share. can you start just, what do you think would be the ultimate power wing setup and we can work down into boards and then foils.
Ken Adgate (1:48:37)
I got it listed, so do you want me to read the whole thing?
Daniel Paronetto (1:48:39)
Go. Well, let's start with the parrowing. Like if
we're going to, you know, design the ultimate parrowing, what does it have? What does it do?
Ken Adgate (1:48:46)
β
I would say as far as characteristics that I've ridden of different brands and I haven't rode Ewan's new one and I haven't rode the new, β shoot, what is it called? The new Power Pack, sorry, Power Pack. So I haven't rode that. So I would say the Ozone stability and flying characteristics, the F1 bar feel and how it flies when it's overpowered, the BRM pack down and the BRM material β and the line length.
Cynthia Brown (1:48:57)
Power pack. Power pack.
Daniel Paronetto (1:49:10)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Adgate (1:49:15)
of the old one, I'm not sure about the new one. And then some better material as far as more water resistant material that is also Pax-Sound nice, so far as apparently. Oh, and small bar with hard ends. What are those? What would you call them? Yeah, longhorns, yeah. 12 to 13 inch bar with longhorns.
Daniel Paronetto (1:49:30)
Anything.
Cynthia Brown (1:49:34)
Longhorns, longhorns, longhorns.
Daniel Paronetto (1:49:44)
That's still long, the bar. I'd go 10, 11, like super small.
Ewan (1:49:45)
No, think 12 inches is
Cynthia Brown (1:49:46)
No.
Ewan (1:49:48)
30cm. I don't think, maybe BRM have smaller bars than that, but I don't think anyone else does.
Cynthia Brown (1:49:54)
They're too small though, have you ridden them? I've ridden them. It's too small.
Daniel Paronetto (1:49:55)
Nah, yeah, you
Ewan (1:49:56)
Yeah. Yes.
Daniel Paronetto (1:49:58)
get used to it though. If you just ride it once, especially coming from the ozone, the pocket rocket has a big bar. β you get used to it. rode BRM for a little while. β and I got used to it and I went back to the pocket rocket. I'm like, whew, the bar is enormous. And I think the diameter of the bar is also thinner, which I think is interesting. That could be something, little thinner diameter on the bar.
Ewan (1:50:04)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Brown (1:50:23)
I just didn't like that short bar.
Daniel Paronetto (1:50:25)
But in terms of the powering,
that's pretty much everything we want.
Cynthia Brown (1:50:32)
If the bar's too short, like that the BRM short short bar, your fingers have to be locked down on that nub. And I just found that constrictive. But that's just my opinion.
Daniel Paronetto (1:50:33)
Go ahead, Simbad.
Hmm. Yeah. After writing it a little bit, I got used to it. And then the, the, the advantage when you stow is really good. Yeah.
Cynthia Brown (1:50:58)
yeah, fantastic.
Daniel Paronetto (1:51:02)
β anything about anything else we want in the pair of wings? think parrots should be bright colored just for safety, especially if it's a downwind kind of parrowing. It's probably the only thing that's going to stick out of the water. If you're, you know, in a bad situation. So the white pair wings are beautiful, but man, they're just a white cap out there when you're riding. can't see it. It's hard. β all right, let's move on to the board. Let's just change who we're talking to you. And what do you think is the ultimate board for you?
Cynthia Brown (1:51:10)
Thank
Ewan (1:51:32)
β yeah definitely, I mean the mid-length style stuff seems to work best for parawinging.
Daniel Paronetto (1:51:32)
these days.
Ewan (1:51:42)
It's, I went through a little phase of riding like a traditional wing style board, but a small one, like a 40, 50 liter, but it's just so hard to get up on foil with the efficiency of a power wing. Um, so yeah, definitely. I mean, for me, what I've settled with right now is a 58 liter, five eight board. Um, got a little more nose rocker in it as well. So you can kind of, you know, pump it pretty well and not kind of bury the nose.
β and yeah, not, not too narrow that, you know, I like to have like a slightly staggered stance on my board. So I don't want it too narrow that I can't stagger my feet a little bit and end up having my back foot toes over the rail. I don't like that either. And I like just a flat, flat deck as well. Yeah. Like, I mean, on the sub side of things, I don't really like to go less than about.
Daniel Paronetto (1:52:13)
Mm-hmm.
So what with are we talking about then?
Ewan (1:52:42)
18 17 and a half If you're trying to surf it a bit so same with but then again it That depends it could be 19 in the middle and then too narrow towards the tail and then you still have that issue So I just I don't like it too pulled in on the tail either And then yeah, I like a flat deck not not too much shaping on top or anything just like a nice clean clean deck
And yeah, I, β
I like our foil boxes, not a tattle box as well, just for being able to move it around. yeah. Yeah, one day.
Ken Adgate (1:53:26)
You'll get there.
Daniel Paronetto (1:53:27)
Hehehehehe
Ewan (1:53:29)
But yeah, just for compatibility with other brands, other foils, changing things up. I mean, if everyone had an adjustable towel box on the market, then maybe I'd prefer that, but just for the sake of being able to borrow someone's foil, they all run in such different spots.
Daniel Paronetto (1:53:30)
Yeah, Kent's talking about things that like 3 % of the foilers are able to experience.
Yeah.
I think it's,
it's, I found it crazy at AWSI how every brand created a foil drive specific mast. That blew my mind. was like, that's something that is kind of like what you're saying is just a big change in the industry that everybody had to kind of adopt. I thought that was pretty interesting this year to see that. And yeah. All right, Ken, what do you think is, β
board and foil setup that you're motivated on now.
Ken Adgate (1:54:24)
I think with β this hollow construction, I think this is something that could be pretty freaking epic. I I was thinking, I was talking to Kyle about it and I was thinking that you could inject helium bags inside so you don't have to worry about cracks and leaking. You could put β basically β airbags inside of the hollow addition and then inject helium inside of them, which would make the board lighter and would offset for sure the weight of the bag.
But yeah, helium construction board, that would be the ultimate setup, like a five pound, five and a half pound board, 60 liters would be absolutely epic. You put that with a Tuttle and a Tuttle mast and a Tuttle skin, and Tuttle, well because the construction, the construction on the mast is gonna be so much better and people are gonna slowly realize that, really slow, but the high end riders will feel it, they'll know for sure that it's worth it.
Cynthia Brown (1:55:06)
There's that tunnel. Here comes a tunnel.
Daniel Paronetto (1:55:07)
Here we go.
Yeah, you lost the audience.
Ewan (1:55:17)
hehe
Daniel Paronetto (1:55:22)
Yeah,
you and I, we know what to talk
Ewan (1:55:24)
But it is
Ken Adgate (1:55:24)
Yeah.
Ewan (1:55:24)
cool with
the hollow boards actually, like, unless you get a full, like, demolished crack, like, cave the rail of your board in, they can, you know, they can leak and you can get back to shore and then open the plug and drain them out overnight and fix it up and it's fine. It doesn't matter if they get wet, which is pretty cool. And they're super strong as well, like, they don't just crack either for, I mean, a board that light in, like, an epoxy or something would...
Daniel Paronetto (1:55:40)
Mhm. Patch it up.
Ewan (1:55:54)
you'd have to treat it like, yeah, glass, whereas...
Daniel Paronetto (1:55:59)
Yeah, no car shuttles.
Ken Adgate (1:55:59)
Yeah, you could run a lot β
more layers of carbon on the outer shell, which would help the impact. So you could probably run two or three layers versus running single or dual layers on a foam board. yeah, they could be definitely better for sure.
Ewan (1:56:05)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, and the feel, the
input that you put into your foil is crazy. Just like nothing you've ever felt when you go into a hollow board.
Ken Adgate (1:56:21)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, they want a foil with no effort, which is nice because the nose are so light.
Ewan (1:56:29)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Paronetto (1:56:30)
Hmm.
Sinbad, what are we feeling board wise and foil wise? Well, we know the foil, you're an F4 girl now.
Cynthia Brown (1:56:37)
β
Yeah, well the only thing I would change on the foil is if it could have a little bit, the little snappier turning like the surf foil, they've just developed the Manta, which is, it's like a little sports car, super fun. But then still have the low end, the glide, the pump, the acceleration. It'd be a unicorn. β And the board.
I mean, I'm not a board designer. I'm just, as long as it's light and stiff, it's going to be amazing. just, the board I have right now, like I...
It's the nicest board I've ever had. I'm sorry Kenny, other than the Kenny boards which have tuttle boxes, I needed a track board. So this board for right now is replacing my Kenny boards. And then on the parrowing side, only thing, like what's amazing is the...
Daniel Paronetto (1:57:25)
Get it.
Ken Adgate (1:57:29)
you
Cynthia Brown (1:57:38)
the pocket rocket, which I, in the beginning I was like, yeah, the lines are long and I didn't like that. But once I got used to it, like the range of that pair of wings insane. β and then we all wanted shorter lines. Then they came out with this power pack, which like has the shorter lines, has a lower aspect, has the low end grunt. The only thing I would and has the shorter bar for you, but it's, I think it's like 13 or maybe 14 inches. So it's probably too long for you, but
Ken Adgate (1:58:07)
Yeah,
I it's 14.
Cynthia Brown (1:58:08)
It's 14, but it β is.
Daniel Paronetto (1:58:09)
They change from
size to size, which is nice. They'll go bigger bar and the bigger sizes and they change to smaller bars and smaller sizes. No? I think Dom might've said something on the podcast the other day.
Cynthia Brown (1:58:15)
I don't think they did. I don't think they did.
okay, because of what I read, so it was the same bar, but I could be wrong again. that, but if they, the canopy material and the line material that 777 uses is really nice and like the lightest I've ever felt. That would be my only change.
Daniel Paronetto (1:58:28)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I'm with you guys on all those specs. β I think board obviously in foil is a little different. β I'm really loving the surf stuff. I just wish that code had a skinny mast, like an 11 millimeter or something like that. That'd be sick. β And just smaller tails as well. I really like to have a slightly bigger front wing and the shortest tail I can ride. I think that makes it good for the bottom end of getting up on the foil easily, but then you still have all the maneuverability.
Ken Adgate (1:58:56)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:59:15)
Um, and I ride an extra small fuse, so that also helps. Um, but apart from the skinny mast, I'm pretty happy with that setup. Um, and then the board, I think what I talked to with Frank is, is perfect. Like for me, 65, uh, 65 liters, pretty spot on five, eight by 19 is where we landed. I'm pretty happy with that. And that's a board that.
I can upscale a little bit the power wing in and foil and get on, you know, in 20 knots and it's fine. β and obviously when it's cranky, I think it's small enough to have fun on. So you don't have to perish too much out there. We were talking about being, renaming the sport parish wing in hood river. Yeah. The Nash crew is all calling it parish wing now.
Ewan (1:59:57)
Yeah, that's what we call it.
Daniel Paronetto (2:00:06)
All right guys, look, we are two hours in. I want to thank you so much for your time. β thank you so much for pushing the sport like you guys did this year. Let's try to do more next year. β and if there are anything that I can ever help you with, with whatever you're doing, projects, launches, even we can come in and talk more about the hatch if you want.
But thank you very much for coming on. Thank you very much for your time and let's make 2026 a better year for Parawinging.
Ewan (2:00:32)
Yeah,
thanks everyone. It was great. Cheers.
Cynthia Brown (2:00:32)
β Thank you.
Ken Adgate (2:00:32)
Yeah. Thanks for having us. Thank you.
